My 1952 Buick
- Thread starter JohnnyBgood
- Start date
So I got an invite from the GM plant in St. Catharines Ont. to enter my car in their GM show. I went last year and stayed the whole time. Was a long day. Today I parked literally in the trees so I could sneak out the back way. Well there was such a large turn out of cars that I ended up getting pinned in and had to wait all day to get out of there. Was a good day though and there was way more cars this year than there was last year. I liked the way they did it this year. ..28 categories for judging ..you had to pick which category you wanted to compete in so each car could only win one trophy. I picked the Buick category and ended up with best of show in my class. So I’m done with shows now. Was a good day but the whole time I was there I kept on thinking about the stuff I had to do when I got home..ha.
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So as I was driving home yesterday I pulled out to pass and around the 120 mark I notice a small shake and less stability in the steering. I checked my toe today and I was running at almost 1/4 in toe out. Yes I know I was warned about watching the toe when I was changing the caster but I thought it was fine on my initial drive. So what I want is toe in?..at about 1/8 in?…I’m just guessing because the internet has several different measurements for the 1975 nova front end….ideas?..advice?..thanks..
Yes, toe in for regular drivers. Use the ‘factory specs’ for the clip…likely won’t need and extra mucking around. A little goes a long way. Zero toe, neutral, is close but not great for real world driving…. Back to toe in (at the front of the car), punching in ‘toe-in’ about 1/8” makes for a great driver, responding as you would/should expect. Using a tape measure was always close enough for the circle track (paved oval); also great for setting up hot rod during initial build and first drives around the block…which has lasted me years…hahaha
You got this
You got this
So I made myself some toe measurements plates..Original and genius idea…well it must be because if you go google these there are companies that make these..anyways got 2 aluminum plates and cut slots in them to hold my tape measure. losened the tie rod sleeves and gave each one turn and remeasured. Ended up with a bit over 1/8 toe in so I’m going to try that when the rains and roads clear up. Paint cans keep them straight.
Excellent and easy diy! Thanks for sharing….hope you see(feel) the difference
Nicely done, was thinking of doing this 'plate' lately but have some questions of you 'alignment, front end gurus'. Learned long ago from a very talented guy (Kelvin P, RIP) jacking up, spinning the tire and white painting a center line on the tire, scoring with a pointer, then with a simple fixed 2 pointer set up measure front and back at center of tire at 1/2 way up point. The aluminum plates look like they measure out in front (and behind) the tire and not at the midpoint height wise? To me when you have toe in or out for that matter would not measuring at that point that not exaggerate the measurement both front and back? Not anywhere near an expert on alignment but recently built a pointer set up as learned from Kelvin.
My plates are touching the sidewalls of the tire. Both sides. I have cut my groves in at the highest point I can because the suspension of the car hangs low and is in the way. As long as the amount that it hangs out in front of or behind the tire is the same on both side of the car the measurement should be the same. I don’t think with the plates you would be able to get a tape measure from side to side at the mid way point without hitting a steering component somewhere along the way. I took it for a decent ride today and came home and measured it again. That 1/8 of an inch is now over a 1/4 inch. I should have moved the tie rod sleeves then moved the car back and forth and turned the steering wheel to settle the tires back in and then measure the toe. Well I didn’t and now I have to reverse the process..just a little bit. Im just guessing at what I’m doing. Not in any way an expert. Alignment shops won’t touch it because they say they can’t get there equipment onto the wheels because they are tucked in under.
The plate method used by JBG is accurate as the plates contact the tire sidewall at the mid height point, putting them parallel to the wheel line of travel. The only thing to check is wheel run-out. This is more often an issue with steel wheels. If you check for run out first arrange the max runout at the top so that mid-height is equal. As JBG says you need to roll the car back and forth to allow the suspension to settle to normal ride height. Then put 200lb. in the driver's seat. I like the plates or a straight edge against the sidewall as long as possible so the toe measurement is exagerated. Then you can do the math to correct it to the tire diameter.
The scribed centerline also works fine as long as it's applied accurately, You will need to use a trammel bar or plumb bobs to take the measurements.
The scribed centerline also works fine as long as it's applied accurately, You will need to use a trammel bar or plumb bobs to take the measurements.
Keeping track (mark your components) with the turns or part thereof will help with your process. Threads are convert rotational movement to linear movement… 12threads per inch transfers one rotation to 1/12 of an inch (0.083”). 16 Threads per inch, 1/16 (0.0625) would be lineal movement. Now trying to keep this reasonably easy, you won’t likely see thatExact lineal movement due to where the tie rods attach, so don’t try to get that accurate, but know if you turn one turn you get -Blank- movement, so half a turn would get ‘half’ that of -Blank- movement.
Sorry if this is something you already know and understand, but may help someone else that is just peeking in.
We only used the tape measure for our race cars and hot rods….you got this!
Sorry if this is something you already know and understand, but may help someone else that is just peeking in.
We only used the tape measure for our race cars and hot rods….you got this!
Interesting..how does that work?
Went and turned the sleeve 1/2 turn back. Want to take it out for a drive and then measure it. I figure if one turn was too much..half a turn must be just right..ha.
JBG: As shown by an old friend, very simple for toe measurement. Lift wheel, spray paint (white) on center of tire(s) while rotating, scribe a centerline through the white paint again while rotating tire(s). Drop back down and settle suspension, set pointers on scribe line at rear of tire at center height, move to front and direct read of toe in/out. Adjust and remeasure as needed. Hope this explains it.
i turned back the tie rod sleeves 1/2 turn. I have my 1/8 toe in now. ..but.…do tires ” grow“ when they are hot? I measured the toe when I got home after a long drive. It was now at 0 toe. I thought something had moved during my drive so the next day I went out in the morning and the measurements was back to my 1/8 toe in. . Hot tires compared to cold tires? Hot suspension components and cold components? Gotta be the heat in some way effecting it.. I’m going to leave it as it is. I have some feel in the steering wheel and it rides as it should . I think I’m just splitting hairs now on this one.
Excellent!!
Yes tires grow when hot!!! Knowing this and know how each individual tire reacts to heat is a lot of how to win races on paved oval tracks! I had an amazing mentor on setting up paved oval stock cars.
Check your tire air pressure when ‘cold’ check it again hot… you will see a marked difference, this will be relative to how much your tire grows. Back in the early 90’s we ran (after mentorship) nitrogen in the tires, this kept the growth/inflation to a minimum, which allowed better management of the other affected attributes of the car. Today most tire stores offer nitrogen for your street tires (this is another topic or rant). Again keeping your air pressure up in your tires is important.
Yes tires grow when hot!!! Knowing this and know how each individual tire reacts to heat is a lot of how to win races on paved oval tracks! I had an amazing mentor on setting up paved oval stock cars.
Check your tire air pressure when ‘cold’ check it again hot… you will see a marked difference, this will be relative to how much your tire grows. Back in the early 90’s we ran (after mentorship) nitrogen in the tires, this kept the growth/inflation to a minimum, which allowed better management of the other affected attributes of the car. Today most tire stores offer nitrogen for your street tires (this is another topic or rant). Again keeping your air pressure up in your tires is important.
It’s a front steer. I’m thinking they got fatter when hot which decreased the toe…or maybe the tire sits differently on the ground when it’s hot..maybe I should have measured from a outside tread instead of the middle tread?.not sure Either way I’m happy with it and I’m running it how it is and im sure I can find something else to decipher..thanks for all of the feedback guys..always helps to bounce ideas and issues of off everyone here…
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