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47convert
Guest
I agree too, BUT, if we keep pestering the crap out of them they might get tired of it and do something. We sure aren't going to get anywhere sitting on our butts letting it happen.
Yes, definitely complain to your MPP. As far as remembering which government did this, yes, remember that when you vote, but sadly, I really don't think it makes a whole lot of difference which political party is in power these days. The way I see it, there are three activist groups that control the political agenda in Canada. I'm referring to the environmental activists, the gay/lesbian activists and the feminist activists. These three groups all support each other's causes. They show up at the same protests. The news media always takes the side of these activist groups. These three groups are who the politicians are listening to, mainly because they (the politicians) are scared to death of them.
These activist groups pride themselves in being P.I.T.A.'s and are constantly complaining to politicians. We have to do the same. Organize and complain, become a huge PITA to the politicians. This is where SVAO, MAAC (in Manitoba) and similar groups in the other provinces will be very usefull. We will need to get as many car clubs as possible into these organizations and work along with the SEMA Action Network if we are going to be sucessful.
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Matthewrench
Active Member
What about utilizing the media as well??
What about contacting the larger newspapers and explaining the situation to them as well, get them to write up a piece on it? I know that MPP's LOVE media attention and if it's in print and being put under a microscope, you're more than likely to see something done quicker. I work for a large publication that has a section dedicated to automotive interests and I am sure that this would make for a good news story.... If someone wants to get the ball rolling email me at mjohnson AT thestar.ca and I can give you some contacts and help out.
What about contacting the larger newspapers and explaining the situation to them as well, get them to write up a piece on it? I know that MPP's LOVE media attention and if it's in print and being put under a microscope, you're more than likely to see something done quicker. I work for a large publication that has a section dedicated to automotive interests and I am sure that this would make for a good news story.... If someone wants to get the ball rolling email me at mjohnson AT thestar.ca and I can give you some contacts and help out.
I seen forum piece Workin Class is talking about---post the link!! we have to stand together has link to Otoole's office and petition stuff.
http://ontariorodders.activeboard.com/t49497821/moe-emissions-petition/
Hope doesnt ruffle too many feathers but we need as much information as possible imo and go from there.
Shane
http://ontariorodders.activeboard.com/t49497821/moe-emissions-petition/
Hope doesnt ruffle too many feathers but we need as much information as possible imo and go from there.
Shane
Matthewrench
Active Member
I appreciate your insight, but, I work for a publication that doesn't benefit from government ad dollars as you pointed out above. I still believe that getting the message out there in print will only draw attention to the issue and help gain more support. IMO of course... Regardless, we need to band together and ensure that this nonsense gets addressed one way or another.
some more BS
http://www.recorder.ca/ArticleDisplay.aspx?e=1724955
emailed both Mpps in my vicinty --both looking into it --hahahaha
http://www.recorder.ca/ArticleDisplay.aspx?e=1724955
emailed both Mpps in my vicinty --both looking into it --hahahaha
Guess we have been sittin on our butts too long eh Danno
my Mpp got back to me with this ..............
Good Morning Shane,
Further to your email of July 10th, I have received the following information from the Ministry of Environment.
For Drive Clean, all vehicles including “hot rods” are dealt with in one regulation.
“Hot rods” are defined in the regulation and there is a specific section for hot rods in order to outline how Drive Clean applies.
Outside of the general rules for vehicle owners, and the requirements for those Drive Clean facility operators who do the testing of emissions, there are no formal requirements/regulations for mechanics. The emission control requirements for `kit cars, rebuilt cars and hot rods` can be found here:
http://www.e-laws.gov.on.ca/html/regs/english/elaws_regs_980361_e.htm#BK5
Also, the ministry, with help from the Special Vehicle Association of Ontario, is in the midst of creating a plain language guide which will serve to clarify the regulatory requirements.
Hopefully the above website will help Shane.
You would think that the Ministry and SVAO would have had this new so called guide in place for everyone prior to all the blitz's and fines being handed out. The link I believe they sent is already posted here somewhere. Anyone else got anymore info???? Mike ? One of local guys knows a sniffer cop---did 2yrs schooling to do this and they plan on attending all the shows and cruises day or nite,weekends dont matter so be prepared for the worst. Unless we can do something to help our hobby or we tuck tail and take another one in the ass as usual ..........just my opinion tho. Waiting O'toole now too see what he says --will keep you posted
Shane
my Mpp got back to me with this ..............
Good Morning Shane,
Further to your email of July 10th, I have received the following information from the Ministry of Environment.
For Drive Clean, all vehicles including “hot rods” are dealt with in one regulation.
“Hot rods” are defined in the regulation and there is a specific section for hot rods in order to outline how Drive Clean applies.
Outside of the general rules for vehicle owners, and the requirements for those Drive Clean facility operators who do the testing of emissions, there are no formal requirements/regulations for mechanics. The emission control requirements for `kit cars, rebuilt cars and hot rods` can be found here:
http://www.e-laws.gov.on.ca/html/regs/english/elaws_regs_980361_e.htm#BK5
Also, the ministry, with help from the Special Vehicle Association of Ontario, is in the midst of creating a plain language guide which will serve to clarify the regulatory requirements.
Hopefully the above website will help Shane.
You would think that the Ministry and SVAO would have had this new so called guide in place for everyone prior to all the blitz's and fines being handed out. The link I believe they sent is already posted here somewhere. Anyone else got anymore info???? Mike ? One of local guys knows a sniffer cop---did 2yrs schooling to do this and they plan on attending all the shows and cruises day or nite,weekends dont matter so be prepared for the worst. Unless we can do something to help our hobby or we tuck tail and take another one in the ass as usual ..........just my opinion tho. Waiting O'toole now too see what he says --will keep you posted
Shane
Yup tyipical nazi government to sneek around behind closed doors and draft laws that look good to them so they can justify their jobs and pat each other on the back.I could not get a straight answer last fall when I tried to get mine through drive clean.Many many many phone calls went unreturned because they could'nt give me or my mechanic a striaght answer so we did'nt know where to turn to.I checked before bringing the car from out of provence and was told that all it needed was to meet 1980 and older specks which it does no problem.NO ONE ever said that all emission equipment had to be in place for the year of motor,now i'm looking at huge dollars to change everything or huge fines if I don't. I'm very pissed at the very poor advise,information,common sence to my calls to drive clean before my move here and doublly pissed at the treatment I got when I arrived here and wanted to transfer ownership to ontario. All that is needed for everyone to be happy is to make any cars built after january first 2013 to be in compyance with this emission law (all emission equipment in place for newer engines) and we would have a heads up and know how to build our cars .No one wants to have a poluting engine espeselly old car hobbists so we would have no problem meeting the rules if only they would give some notice,an e-mail,letter or phone call to all drive clean facilitys.Maybe even some ads in old autos and simular mags.Sneaky underhanded money grabbing crooks.What is there 10,000 pre 1970 cars with newer engines that pollute a million times less than with oringial engines they came equiped with from factory and a million factory type cars from 1900 to 1990 that have stinky oil burning original engines with nothing but a stink tube at most and mussel cars from the late 60's that have huge co standards that make it easy for the regular engine to pass without cats,egrs,and feed back systems.
Ok I feel better time to go sell the car to a provence or state that reconizes the money that we put into the economy through all our trips,hotels,licence fees and so on.
Randy
Ok I feel better time to go sell the car to a provence or state that reconizes the money that we put into the economy through all our trips,hotels,licence fees and so on.
Randy
If the Sniffers are going to go to EVERY show, day or night, weekday or weekend, it could "kill" the shows as people stay away to avoid fines.
No fun going to a show just to be handed a $400 to $700 fine.
Now, does this all apply to out-of-province plated vehicles?
And what about the GM E-Rod engine that is in compliance but unfortunately is a "crate" engine.
No fun going to a show just to be handed a $400 to $700 fine.
Now, does this all apply to out-of-province plated vehicles?
And what about the GM E-Rod engine that is in compliance but unfortunately is a "crate" engine.
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Hey Shane, I e-mailed my MPP here (I'm just north of you), and after waiting and getting the runaround, I got an almost EXACT copy of the same letter that you got this morning. We have a different MPP here, and I got a response from an "assistant" of my MPP. You'd almost have to wonder if there's some colusion going on here. I e-mailed Matthewrench several days ago, at the e-mail address that he posted, and I have yet to get any response from him either.
I got 2 of those letters back almost word for word the same as the one listed above.
slim
Well-Known Member
To bad we live in a County full of SHEEP. Bacause thats what they expect. Pick you off one at a time with no complants.Pay your fines early without going to court and thank them for it. DID I SAY SHEEP .Complaining to your chief utter licking sheep is just that. Utter boy / girl has allready been told What to say and how to say it.Wonder what would happen every time they set up out front of a show and the show moved out to greet them 40 50 cars not much parking on the side of the road . might have to stop in it no ones in a hurry any way . 50 guys milling about mabe checking out ther stuff. Might take abit of time for that many to get back to there car to move on. Exchange some friendly jestures like your #1. But no sheep dont do things like that.
The problem as I see it is to know when they do one of these stings and everybody should carry the cell numbers of every one willing to come to that location....
we have that power to able to muster quite a few guys in an area in a hurry IF we have an organised plan.. But there needs to be a plan, a group willing and able to be available on short notice, the plan would have to know what to do when they arrive on the scene of the sting..I don't think civil disobedience would do us any good..
But there must be ways to make their life hell and for us to attract media attention to embarrass them..And we need to get some facts about just how many charitys and kids are assisted by old car events and shows..There are many but, we need to have that information handy to give those facts to the media who's attention we attract..we need to make sure we get those facts into every small town that has a car show sponserd by the Rotary clubs, the Lions club, and about every small fair, every town in Ontario wants our cars and people to come to their event ..
We need to get public opinion on our side ane we need them to phone, mail, their Mps.. We need to have a forum to to some brainstorming and planing ..with out a plan we are lost we need to have an organized response.
We can talk all we want on these forums..but till we get off the porch nothins gonna change...in the screen I view it
we have that power to able to muster quite a few guys in an area in a hurry IF we have an organised plan.. But there needs to be a plan, a group willing and able to be available on short notice, the plan would have to know what to do when they arrive on the scene of the sting..I don't think civil disobedience would do us any good..
But there must be ways to make their life hell and for us to attract media attention to embarrass them..And we need to get some facts about just how many charitys and kids are assisted by old car events and shows..There are many but, we need to have that information handy to give those facts to the media who's attention we attract..we need to make sure we get those facts into every small town that has a car show sponserd by the Rotary clubs, the Lions club, and about every small fair, every town in Ontario wants our cars and people to come to their event ..
We need to get public opinion on our side ane we need them to phone, mail, their Mps.. We need to have a forum to to some brainstorming and planing ..with out a plan we are lost we need to have an organized response.
We can talk all we want on these forums..but till we get off the porch nothins gonna change...in the screen I view it
Chuck, once again you hit the nail on the head. Its like one big giant screw.
If "they" do what they say they are going to do, Hobbyists will stop going the shows if they know they're going to get fines, and soon the shows will be no longer and the charity work gets impacted too.
The show's organizers/sponsors, and the charities involved, have to get involved too and as you say, every small town that has a show has to raise the profile as to what the charities receive from these shows each year.
With gov't cutbacks to charities, these shows become fundraisers for them.
I don't think the shows organizers know about the GSD's (Gov't Sniffer Dogs) and will wonder what the hell is going on and then it s too late. They have to be made aware too. They have the power as they can make the public, and media, aware that the gov't is hitting the pocket books of the charities with the actions of these GSD's.
Once again, I don't think the public will get behind a "bunch" of guys complaining about emissions laws (everybody "says" they want clean air) but they will take notice when a charity fundraiser gets clobbered.
If "they" do what they say they are going to do, Hobbyists will stop going the shows if they know they're going to get fines, and soon the shows will be no longer and the charity work gets impacted too.
The show's organizers/sponsors, and the charities involved, have to get involved too and as you say, every small town that has a show has to raise the profile as to what the charities receive from these shows each year.
With gov't cutbacks to charities, these shows become fundraisers for them.
I don't think the shows organizers know about the GSD's (Gov't Sniffer Dogs) and will wonder what the hell is going on and then it s too late. They have to be made aware too. They have the power as they can make the public, and media, aware that the gov't is hitting the pocket books of the charities with the actions of these GSD's.
Once again, I don't think the public will get behind a "bunch" of guys complaining about emissions laws (everybody "says" they want clean air) but they will take notice when a charity fundraiser gets clobbered.
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Matthewrench
Active Member
I have forwarded the information to a few friends in editorial, I have also been digging a bit to get some more background on the antics / legislation for the folks there to use if required.
These clowns obviously haven't thought about the far reaching consequences that legislation like this will cause.
I will keep you all posted.
These clowns obviously haven't thought about the far reaching consequences that legislation like this will cause.
I will keep you all posted.