Emission controls for hot rods (please read )

they started the same thing around mid 80s on the bikers cast numbers with no records ligit title.ligit stamped vin.seen it happen.you get one of theis guys trying to make a name for himself and drages you into the loop.by the way under canadian law possession of stolen good.you are considerd guilty until you prove different so after you pay an expert to take the stand and explane what happens when you deck a block and that block has been decked you would be good to go. but this wont happen for a year probley longer. do what you want .but ill be leaveing my block alone.its a hell of alot cheaper and easyer on you and your family to stick on a few emission gadgits hell no one sayes the guts have to be in them.by the way i couldnt make this stuff up if i tryed.sometimes real life is just so much stranger then fiction.
 
Dosen't there have to be a victim? If it's his and he reports it stolen to the police and you have it then you may be charged with possession of stolen property. They cannot charge you with possession of stolen property unless you stole it. Is there a law that says you cannot grind the numbers off your own block?
 
Slim, I have a 350 Chev block here where the area in front of the right side cylinder head is rough cast, and shows no evidence of ever being machined, ground off, or ever having had numbers stamped into it. The deck surface where the head bolts on is clean and smooth, but the pad in front of it where the numbers are usually stamped is slightly lower than the deck surface, and like I said, its rough, like it was cast that way, and never machined. I'm not 100% sure, but I'm thinking it may be a service replacement block, that was never used in a vehicle on the assembly line, but was sold through a GM parts department as a replacement block or partial replacement engine. I'm not trying to say you're wrong, just trying to point out that there are exceptions to every rule. I don't see anything illegal about this engine block at all.
 
clean8485 said:
Danno, since you mention that John O'Toole is your MP, I'm assuming that you're somewhere in Durham Region, am I correct? I wouldn't mind getting together with you sometime to chat about this subject. I'm just north of Port Perry. Like I said in my post, I've got vehicles that were originally equipped with emission controls, and I've kept them on and functioning. I understand that most people here are unhappy with the way the law is worded and administered now, but as far as I'm concerned, I'm not going to quit building or driving a car that I like, just to avoid the possibility of being fined over an emission infraction. My own preference is to be able to drive the car that I like, and not have to worry about being fined if I get pulled over. Just my humble opinion.
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I couldn't find a way to PM you ! Give me an e-mail address and I will contact you. Yes I am in Durham, and by the way, Port Perry (so I was told by me MPs office) is where most of the complaints come from.
 
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clean8485 said:
I'm not 100% sure, but I'm thinking it may be a service replacement block, that was never used in a vehicle on the assembly line, but was sold through a GM parts department as a replacement block or partial replacement engine. I'm not trying to say you're wrong, just trying to point out that there are exceptions to every rule. I don't see anything illegal about this engine block at all.
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This is a perfect example of the issue. Nevermind the production numbers stamped on the front pad. Every block has date codes cast into it at the foundry. Production engines, service replacement engines, crate engines all have 'em. If the only way the "authorites" have to identify the engine is by these numbers, that's a problem.
If you order a GM goodwrench replacement engine for your car/truck, you have no idea, or no control, of the date code on the block. I'm not sure of when current service replacement engines were cast, but I'm bettin' that they weren't pre '73, which means that these date codes could possibly alter the emission equipement requirements of your totally "stock" restoration. Unfair??
Grinding the numbers off, or otherwise deliberately trying to mislead/hide it is not the desired solution. Amendments to the legislation to clarify the grey area's reguarding rebuilt engines, service replacement, and crate engines is what we need.
Now the inspector's we talked to said that it is highly unlikely for them to crawl under the car, or disassemble it to find the casting numbers, unless you give them a reason to. But the interpretation that they could, is disturbing.
 
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Performance Crate engines.

With a very simple visual, most popular crate engines can be indentified as a "late model" engine. Cast aluminum timing chain cover on a big block Chev crate 454,502,572(non-production tall deck), mean the date codes are '96 and newer. GM crate motors come with a tag glued to the block that has assembly code/date and serial numbers on them. A recent ZZ454 that I pulled is a 2006 engine. Does this mean it needs 2006 emissions equipement?? clarification please, it was "supplied by the manufacturer" they way it was put in the car.
Quick look at a smallblock Chev?.... passenger side dipstick, centerbolt valves covers, indicators that is most likely motor that requires emissions equipement no matter what vehicle it is in.

Gm sells LS series engines with a carb intake. Obviously a late model engine, but over the counter as supplied by the manufacturer does it fall in the grey area, you bet!
Fuel injected LS engines, Hemi's, and no doubt Ford equivalents can all be had from the dealer. Some of these displacements and configurations were not available in a production vehicle, therefore there are no emissions standards developed for that engine even if you wanted to comply.
If the engine was "supplied by the manufacturer" as an assembly, we need some clarification in the legislation to address this.

Lots of question's, proper information, and educating both sides of this is what will get us a result.
 
DaveM,
By your posts, you sound a lot like the same DaveM from the Impala web site, your very knowledgable on GM engines. Perhaps since you're a new member you might want to post an introduction.
 
Jeff, that's not the address I have for you. Is the old one still working? I emailed you and Danno.
 
My son got pulled over because of his tinted tail lights (his fault as he had been warned about that) the cop then wanted a full inspection. Fair enough I guess. Now they want a rear bumper on an 88 ford ranger. Serious? To protect what? ICBC will write that vehicle off with just a scratch, so what is a bumper going to prove.:eek:

Russ
 
There has also been some discussion on this subject in the "letters to the editor" section of the past 2 issues of the "Old Autos" newspaper. I'd just like to see the regs spelled out in clear language that the average person can understand.
 
I read through that petition. While I support the idea, the wording is very vague and can be taken wrongly.

From what I get out of it, they want to set the rules to allow the use of newer blocks in older vehicles without adding emissions equipment. I support this interpretation, as older blocks are getting harder and harder to find and the use of a new block does not change emissions at all, it just gives you a new base to work off of.

What others have read is that they want to allow the removal of emissions equipment on anything over 20 years old. Now that interpretation I do not support.

If they spelled the petition out a bit better I think it would get a better reception by all parties.
 
As I said earlyer in this post. Like it or not it doesn't matter . hot rods are there next easy target.The bikers are no fun anymore and they need to make the papers every so often to justify there existance to keep there jobs.dosen't matter if its right dosent mater if its wrong cause no one else cares.It is what it is...cover your ass...
 
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