CLOSED: Our Crossroads - Another Summary / Next Steps

[sqhd]

Guest..just look but gets to see everything but classifieds. Gotta show them something to get them interested to be a member..

Member ..look and post..no direct picture..no messaging..no posting of classified but gets to see them...needs to do a introduction.
Gotta let them do and see some things to get them interested to be a supporter..

Supporter..all the perks...don’t need no gifts....

I also think having a thumbnail for the pictures posted and can only see the larger picture needs to be a supporter. That way members can see ads but to see the larger one they must become supporters.

as far as guests to see ads or pix, should be prompted to sign in.

A yearly fee of $30 minimum is certainly reasonable ( three coffee's at Starbucks)

Carl

 

[K13]

K13,

Yes and no. I know you think that anyone should be able to post photos (I believe you stated in earlier thread). There has to be some advantage to being a Supporter. If not that, what's left?

Sorry but this:

Member ..look and post..no direct picture..no messaging..no posting of classified but gets to see them...needs to do a introduction.
Gotta let them do and see some things to get them interested to be a supporter..

which many members seem to support, reads as pay up or your not really wanted here.

 

[al37ford]

I'm supportive. One thing to keep in mind is the more complex the site becomes, more people will drift away.

 

[GFaRT]

Guest..just look but gets to see everything but classifieds. Gotta show them something to get them interested to be a member..

Member ..look and post..no direct picture..no messaging..no posting of classified but gets to see them...needs to do a introduction.
Gotta let them do and see some things to get them interested to be a supporter..

Supporter..all the perks...don’t need no gifts....

I agree with Johnny here, except for the two items marked in red.

Supporters only can place ads, but they should be seen by anybody to be worthwhile. Introductions are good to have, but should not be mandatory. To register as a member I expect some screening may be invoked to weed out the spammers.

Before purchasing the new license, can changes be made here to accept payments and turn on the supporter features so that Frank has the funds in hand before spending on new licenses? This way we will know if the support is really there. A $20 annual subscription sounds fair.

 

[wuga]

I like introductions. If only to tell me what area you are in and where your interests lie, pre 40,s, 50s, 60s, chain saws or whatever.
Guest: no posting, thumbnails only, can view all content, no ads
Member: ads, full posting, thumbnails only, PMs
Supporter: full access, full size photos, PMs, say in direction of site

Set up a Paypal account and let us start sending in our $20 and pay for out T-shirts

Warren

 

[licensed to kill]

Unfortunately a lot of this is starting to sound like guys want a paid private club rather than a public forum.

Are you suggesting that Frank should shoulder the entire cost along with all the work involved with running the sight so that nobody else has to "pay to play" or are you suggesting that payment should be voluntary with no intrinsic benefits other than a ribbon exclaiming that they contributed so that others can have all the perks for free?. Those are the only other options that I can see and they both suck IMO. Anyone that has belonged to a club of any kind knows that when contributing, be it with work or dollars, is "voluntary", it's always the same few (VERY few) that volunteer. The vast majority are fine with just going along for the free ride.

 

[licensed to kill]

I like introductions. If only to tell me what area you are in and where your interests lie, pre 40,s, 50s, 60s, chain saws or whatever.
Guest: no posting, thumbnails only, can view all content, no ads
Member: ads, full posting, thumbnails only, PMs
Supporter: full access, full size photos, PMs, say in direction of site

Set up a Paypal account and let us start sending in our $20 and pay for out T-shirts

Warren

I think Frank should have the only and final "say" in the direction of the site. It IS his site and he IS the one that will be managing it. To have a "board of directors" comprised of all paid members is a recipe for disaster IMO. Frank has shown very clearly in the last few "sticky" posts that he is open to input and suggestions but for paid member to have an official "say" in the direction of the site would catastrophic and the site wouldn't last a year. Just my opinion.

 

[PG409]

I agree with your comments Cody.

So far 16 people responded on this thread that they would join up. I think we need 30 minimum........ in my opinion.

 

[The Big M]

I can see where K13 is coming from though. If the goal is to attract new users and increase engagement from those who only post occasionally, then I worry that the tiered memberships may be a slippery slope towards inadvertently creating a perception of a "clique-y" atmosphere. And the lack of that atmosphere here is appreciated.

The counter argument that a small number of members will then have to carry the load is also valid, so I'm kind of torn on this topic and have just been reading and processing the discussion up to this point.

I did consider becoming a HAMB Alliance member once, but that was mainly to get the cool firewall tag and take advantage of the discounts. Maybe some CR merch would be a good way to raise some funds, but I can see administering that being a PITA too given the low interest in the recent "Practice Safe Cruising" tee.

I find myself less engaged in forums in general, and reading more than posting. I will say that the main reason as it pertains to this forum has nothing to do with the feature set of the software, but more about the fact that I have very little content to contribute in terms of progress on my project. In many ways I feel like an enthusiast who just happens to own an old truck moreso than a seasoned hot rodder, so it's quite rare that I find I can contribute something unique.

Only one forum that I've been on has gone from a fully public one to a private (almost secret) one where content was completely invisible to non-registered members and I didn't bother to make the jump over. Although there were extenuating circumstances in that case. I don't think that's what's being suggested here, but I always like to be able to see everything and get the lay of the land before registering.

As for photo posting I would probably still use a third-party host personally. I very rarely make use of on-site hosting as I prefer to have all my content in one place. One forum that I'm no longer active on has a few of my build thread photos saved there on an album I can't delete. So I'm neutral on that topic.

I will say that another forum I'm a long-time member of has very similar overall membership numbers and has on-site photo posting, but seems much slower than here. The Photobucket blowup just drove a lot of posters over to the associated FB page, which has considerably more traffic but can have a really crappy atmosphere at times, in my opinion. However, if easier photo posting increases engagement from existing members then hopefully the increased traffic and content would drive up participation when new or potential members see more activity.

I use private messaging on other forums exclusively for classifieds, so I haven't found the lack of it a big deal here. Having the Rodside Assistance page is a nice option and I have participated in a few CR relays in my time here.

Introductions should probably be encouraged, but I think as soon as they're mandatory it's going to turn into a point of conflict where new members are chastised for not doing it first, unless it's some requirement in the software where first-time users have limited capabilities. I've seen this on other forums where certain posters become the "intro police" which is never really constructive. Again, in my experience CR has been pretty drama-free which is a credit to the core membership here (and Admin, of course).

Just my 2 cents, hope it's somewhat helpful.

-Jason

 

[Admin]

Thanks for your comments all.

One thing for certain, there is a lot of differing opinions on a few points and a ton of apathy. Sad really.

The threads pertaining to "the crossroads" (including the poll) have been viewed over 4000 times by 233 users and guests yet we've only heard from just over 10% of them.

Clearly, a number of possible things are at play:

1) As I said above, there is mass apathy about going forward at all.
2) Many simply won't comment because there is nothing more to say or they have no interest in supporting this Forum so it's best not to comment for fear that the comment may imply support.

Personally, I find it astounding that the possibility of a $20 "donation" is abhorrent. I don't even want to ad up the invoices for what I've put into it since 2003 when we went commercial software. MANY thousands - maybe 6k plus the hours.

I think the issue here is deeper than the privileges and there is nothing cliquey about this place.

I really don't see anything wrong with even a few privileges: direct photo uploads, classifieds, conversations.

People simply have to realize that even "Public" forums have to paid by someone. I could certainly attempt to convert the database to free software at no expense other my time -again. I don't like that solution and am not interested in it.

I would like to see this forum have a few good years into the future.

And, yes Jason, trying to raise funds through sales is simply another massive headache for me. The Good to Go TShirt post generated one sale. The only reason I'm doing that is the same reason I've funded this place along. Just for the good of the hobby. There is virtually no profitability in it. Go get a price of 4 colour front / 5 colour back screenprinted T and you'll see what kind of profitability there is in selling them at $30 including HST, packing and shipping anywhere in Canada.


I'm beginning to rant. Sorry.

 

[JohnnyBgood]

Lot of good ideas and suggestions..I think most of us have had our say and if not get your thoughts in...what every admin decides is good with me..maybe give us a way to donate now and you can decide what you want to do when you see what kind of moneys you get....eh....

 

[Admin]

JBG, I was going to mention something about getting the “donations” going but if we fail at raising the required, I’ll then have to write everyone a refund cheques and spend money on postage.

 

[351CFalcon]

I also think we should discuss the Supporter fee (rather than just concentrating on privileges).

Perhaps an affordable fee will prompt more Supporters. Or, not.

Example: What would a Member pay to became a Supporter and get access to photo uploads and access to classifieds?

Another Concern For Me
At some point, with database transactions increasing with photo hosting/resizing, would I have to upgrade the hosting package?

This is something that is an unknown.

This is the question that has to get settled first and foremost.

The rest is just the fluff to cement the deal.

The initial software cost is $400; at $20 a pop, that means at least 20 supporters.
What's the probability of that?

Then there is the annual fees of $120 plus any upgrades to enlarge the hosting site for photos.

Myself, I would like to see a bigger donation to pay for the initial costs and two years of annual fees i.e 400 + 120 = 120= = $640

Taking those same 20 supporters, that would mean a donation of $32.
If only 15 supporters, then its $42, not "BIG" money by any means.

That is not abhorrent in my books, crikey, I've wasted more money on bad fitting parts or paid huge stupid shipping costs.

Round it up to $35 or even $40 to cover any little surprises that may arise.
There should be a cushion or hedge fund if you want to name it.

Myself, $50 is a good number. If more is required, yes, I'm wiling to go more. I want the forum to survive.
One day it may end, but not today.

Once the funding is completed, i.e.. all the money is on the table, then the privileges can be settled of who gets what or who sees what.
No point in discussing anything else until the funds are in place.

Everyone wants Option 3, so members, lets not waste Franks time if there is no dollar support.

 

[Admin]

Just re-read my post. I apologize for the rant. Some frustration....

I’m good.

 

[JohnnyBgood]

JBG, I was going to mention something about getting the “donations” going but if we fail at raising the required, I’ll then have to write everyone a refund cheques and spend money on postage.

No worries..if the moneys don’t work out you can keep mine for all the enjoyment I already got out of this site..

 

[PG409]

We are starting to get “paralysis by analysis” on this subject.

Just commit guys and let Frank get on with it.

 

[K13]

Are you suggesting that Frank should shoulder the entire cost along with all the work involved with running the sight so that nobody else has to "pay to play" or are you suggesting that payment should be voluntary with no intrinsic benefits other than a ribbon exclaiming that they contributed so that others can have all the perks for free?. Those are the only other options that I can see and they both suck IMO. Anyone that has belonged to a club of any kind knows that when contributing, be it with work or dollars, is "voluntary", it's always the same few (VERY few) that volunteer. The vast majority are fine with just going along for the free ride.

Last time I checked a donation was something given to support a cause you have interest or belief in not a "I paid my money now what I am getting out of it". What sucks is that people can't just send Frank some money to update the forum, a form of paying him back for all the year's that he has been footing the bill and working hard to keep it going, without demanding special privileges in return. It's back rent for squatting here for years for free.

 

[351CFalcon]

Just re-read my post. I apologize for the rant. Some frustration....

I’m good.

NO need to apologize....its being a frustrating experience.

We've talked the talk, now its time for us to to walk the walk.

 

[wuga]

I think Frank should have the only and final "say" in the direction of the site. It IS his site and he IS the one that will be managing it. To have a "board of directors" comprised of all paid members is a recipe for disaster IMO. Frank has shown very clearly in the last few "sticky" posts that he is open to input and suggestions but for paid member to have an official "say" in the direction of the site would catastrophic and the site wouldn't last a year. Just my opinion.

Isn't that what we are doing now? But I think if Frank wants an opinion, ask the supporters, they are the ones who truly have shown an interest. I'm not looking for any battle here, just throwing out ideas and waiting to see what sticks.

Warren

 

[351CFalcon]

Last time I checked a donation was something given to support a cause you have interest or belief in not a "I paid my money now what I am getting out of it". What sucks is that people can't just send Frank some money to update the forum, a form of paying him back for all the year's that he has been footing the bill and working hard to keep it going, without demanding special privileges in return. It's back rent for squatting here for years for free.

I'm going to get brutally blunt...

In the very first thread, Frank declared he can no longer finance the forum presently or into the future.

I can count on one hand of those who have actually committed to money, which isn't enough to start Option 3 , or possibly even continue with Option 1.

More people have quibbled about is it $10, or $12, or even $20.
And still no real commitment.

No monies, then its OPTION 1--a slow death.
No need to do any future planning.

No further discussion required...keep it alive or let it die over time.
The choice is ours.