This is a long read. And, you should read everything. Are you comfortable? Need a beverage?
Just by the way, I closed down the other two “sticky” threads: “About the Future / This forum” and “Would it surprise you?” (poll).
Thank you for your input to both threads and votes in the poll (47 votes / 619 views - obviously lots of repeat viewings to check out responses and checking poll results). Since I posted the poll, the average number of registered users visiting per day dropped to 50 over the last 4 days (June 22-25) – almost equal to the number who voted. Coincidence?
Other Interesting Stats
This may surprise you:
Why did I conduct the poll?
A couple of reasons:
I am disillusioned with it for the most - both personally (as me) and other (representing Canadian Rodder). I suppose it has its place and use. BUT, it's simply not a “discussion” - more like "look at me" or please like my car or please look at my photos of whatever or check out my opinion. I find that I am going there less and less - especially in these times - simply too much BS and opinions. I do however try to be courteous and acknowledge those providing information that may be interesting to others within our generic hot rodding community.
Regarding the Canadian Rodder Hot Rod Community Group at Facebook (started July 9, 2019 / some of you are members there), membership is at approximately at 400 and growing. Similar to the stats above, most have not contributed anything. I have to manually approve each member there also. Would you believe that some people are members of HUNDREDS of Facebook groups. Incredible. I have no idea why or how you could possibly have the time or inclination to review your “news feed” if part of that many groups.
Having said that, things will remain as they are there.
About This Forum
This Forum is an adjunct to the Canadian Rodder web site. Some of you may not even be aware that there is one. If not, you can find it HERE. It has been around since the fall of 2000 (20 years almost). It is being rejuvenated and refreshed. In order to be able to provide that site and this forum, there are annual hosting fees (being paid by me - for these 20 years).
In 2003, I added a discussion forum to Canadian Rodder by utilizing what is known as “open source” software. That is, free and supported by developers and a community of users.
In 2008, because of increased activity, ongoing technical issues that were driving me crazy and keeping me up to all hours, I migrated to commercial software (vBulletin). That involved purchasing a license and, over time, subsequent upgrades. The software has been upgraded over 15 times since then – sometimes more than once in a calendar year.
For a few years, I was able to attract sponsorship. I pulled the plug on that when I felt that there wasn’t value in asking companies to pay as activity declined. This was an ethical decision on my part. I left the ads up however, as a thank you to those companies. You may have noticed that I pulled the whole right sidebar down (where the sponsors were) not long ago. You may also have not noticed (he says tongue–in-cheek).
About vBulletin / This Version
The Forum is currently running on version 3.8 (you can see this at the bottom of any page). It is still the most popular and successful version of vBulletin despite the fact that there was a version 4 (less popular) and now a version 5 (not well accepted). The main developers of vBulletin left after a takeover and started another company specializing in community forums.
About Photo Attachments in this version: I have done exhaustive testing and, while adding photo attachments is working (more or less), really large files fail. Many/most cameras and smartphones now take relatively huge photos (pixel size in width and height and file size expressed in megapixels). When this version of vbulletin came out, 640 X 480 pixels was not uncommon (.3 megapixels).
Now, 3, 4, 5 megapixels and greater is common. The latest smartphones have 12 megapixel cameras built in. All of this is important as it relates to the processing ability of the forum software and host software. And, a lot of people don’t know how, or have the resources, to make their images smaller. BTW, there are lots of free, online, image editing/compression web sites. https://resizeimage.net/ https://picresize.com/
About Private Messaging (PMs): The private messaging system is also more or less working but the database is still not right when I run diagnostics. I have no idea why - despite trolling tech sites for insight. I believe something was corrupted in one of the version upgrades. It was also abused prior to the issues but that’s another story.
MOST Importantly About the Current Software
There is a VERY REAL possibility that the hosting company is going to pull the plug, literally anytime, on the version of PHP that I am running on (ver. 5.4 - current versions are 7+). PHP is the scripting language powering the forum. Like the engine. I converse with forum admins that have experienced this. It is not uncommon.
Should this occur, everyone will get a "page not found error 404" (like the image below). The database which houses the data would still be there. Theoretically, it could be used to migrate to different software. I would have to do a full backup every day to preserve current data.
Also, this version has been end-of-life for a few years now. This means that the parent company of vBulletin decided to cut technical support and upgrades for both security and functionality – likely a marketing strategy to force the purchase of the latest version.
What Does All This Mean?
There are a few options:
From My Perspective
I would seriously hate to see 15,000 threads and 205,000 posts disappear.
Needless to say, this will take a tremendous amount of dedicated time in order to not have the forum shut down for a long period but I’m prepared to donate my time as I have been if…..
FYI: The latest versions of all commercial software have improved data and photo handling.
Purchase / License Options for Option 3 Above
There are many including: pay by month, pay by year, one time purchase plus a yearly option for ongoing support and upgrades. My preference would be the latter: purchase a license then pay a nominal fee yearly for the support and upgrade option.
Summary
While I’m prepared to move forward into the future and hopefully attract new users (or previous users or both), I’m not prepared to fund this migration. At the risk of sounding like I’m complaining, 20 years is enough.
As a result, funding would have to come from the community which raises a slew of other issues like:
Note: We have been down this road a few times over the years and there has always been support and opposition to financial support.
I have always been of the mindset that the few should not pay for the many (despite the fact that I was paying for the many). Hence the idea of special privileges.
There are other options and consideration for sure but my fingers are getting tired….
So, let’s discuss.
Just by the way, I closed down the other two “sticky” threads: “About the Future / This forum” and “Would it surprise you?” (poll).
Thank you for your input to both threads and votes in the poll (47 votes / 619 views - obviously lots of repeat viewings to check out responses and checking poll results). Since I posted the poll, the average number of registered users visiting per day dropped to 50 over the last 4 days (June 22-25) – almost equal to the number who voted. Coincidence?
Other Interesting Stats
This may surprise you:
- So far, in 2020, the average number of unique visits per month to CanadianRodder.com (including the forum) is 12,604
- The number of visits to this Forum in the last full month (May) was 5,932. This includes ALL visitors. That is, those logged in as “registered users”, those not logged in, those not registered (“guests”).
- Top poster is 1Kool52 with over 10,000 posts (applause here). Other honourable mentions: John In Oz @ 8,296, Bullet @ 7,400 and PG409 @ 6,676.
- 20 Registered Users have over 2000 posts
- 60 Registered Users have over 1000 posts
- 120 Registered Users have over 500 posts
- 210 Registered Users have over 200 posts
- 300 Registered Users have over 100 posts
- 300 Registered Users have BETWEEN 20 and 100 posts
- 780 Registered Users have BETWEEN 2 and 9 posts
- 300 Registered Users have 1 post
- 2037 Registered Users have 0 posts
Why did I conduct the poll?
A couple of reasons:
- I was curious about what YOU perceived to be the level of activity – keeping in mind, as someone pointed out, that visits have nothing to do with obvious, visible, activity (replies, new threads, etc.). That is, a lot of users come to just look (lurk so-to-speak). This is not uncommon on any forum, social media platform or web site.
- I was also curious about how many would be interested enough to participate in a poll (or make a comment).
I am disillusioned with it for the most - both personally (as me) and other (representing Canadian Rodder). I suppose it has its place and use. BUT, it's simply not a “discussion” - more like "look at me" or please like my car or please look at my photos of whatever or check out my opinion. I find that I am going there less and less - especially in these times - simply too much BS and opinions. I do however try to be courteous and acknowledge those providing information that may be interesting to others within our generic hot rodding community.
Regarding the Canadian Rodder Hot Rod Community Group at Facebook (started July 9, 2019 / some of you are members there), membership is at approximately at 400 and growing. Similar to the stats above, most have not contributed anything. I have to manually approve each member there also. Would you believe that some people are members of HUNDREDS of Facebook groups. Incredible. I have no idea why or how you could possibly have the time or inclination to review your “news feed” if part of that many groups.
Having said that, things will remain as they are there.
About This Forum
This Forum is an adjunct to the Canadian Rodder web site. Some of you may not even be aware that there is one. If not, you can find it HERE. It has been around since the fall of 2000 (20 years almost). It is being rejuvenated and refreshed. In order to be able to provide that site and this forum, there are annual hosting fees (being paid by me - for these 20 years).
In 2003, I added a discussion forum to Canadian Rodder by utilizing what is known as “open source” software. That is, free and supported by developers and a community of users.
In 2008, because of increased activity, ongoing technical issues that were driving me crazy and keeping me up to all hours, I migrated to commercial software (vBulletin). That involved purchasing a license and, over time, subsequent upgrades. The software has been upgraded over 15 times since then – sometimes more than once in a calendar year.
For a few years, I was able to attract sponsorship. I pulled the plug on that when I felt that there wasn’t value in asking companies to pay as activity declined. This was an ethical decision on my part. I left the ads up however, as a thank you to those companies. You may have noticed that I pulled the whole right sidebar down (where the sponsors were) not long ago. You may also have not noticed (he says tongue–in-cheek).
About vBulletin / This Version
The Forum is currently running on version 3.8 (you can see this at the bottom of any page). It is still the most popular and successful version of vBulletin despite the fact that there was a version 4 (less popular) and now a version 5 (not well accepted). The main developers of vBulletin left after a takeover and started another company specializing in community forums.
About Photo Attachments in this version: I have done exhaustive testing and, while adding photo attachments is working (more or less), really large files fail. Many/most cameras and smartphones now take relatively huge photos (pixel size in width and height and file size expressed in megapixels). When this version of vbulletin came out, 640 X 480 pixels was not uncommon (.3 megapixels).
Now, 3, 4, 5 megapixels and greater is common. The latest smartphones have 12 megapixel cameras built in. All of this is important as it relates to the processing ability of the forum software and host software. And, a lot of people don’t know how, or have the resources, to make their images smaller. BTW, there are lots of free, online, image editing/compression web sites. https://resizeimage.net/ https://picresize.com/
About Private Messaging (PMs): The private messaging system is also more or less working but the database is still not right when I run diagnostics. I have no idea why - despite trolling tech sites for insight. I believe something was corrupted in one of the version upgrades. It was also abused prior to the issues but that’s another story.
MOST Importantly About the Current Software
There is a VERY REAL possibility that the hosting company is going to pull the plug, literally anytime, on the version of PHP that I am running on (ver. 5.4 - current versions are 7+). PHP is the scripting language powering the forum. Like the engine. I converse with forum admins that have experienced this. It is not uncommon.
Should this occur, everyone will get a "page not found error 404" (like the image below). The database which houses the data would still be there. Theoretically, it could be used to migrate to different software. I would have to do a full backup every day to preserve current data.
Also, this version has been end-of-life for a few years now. This means that the parent company of vBulletin decided to cut technical support and upgrades for both security and functionality – likely a marketing strategy to force the purchase of the latest version.
What Does All This Mean?
There are a few options:
- Do nothing and simply wait for things to take a natural course / let the forum die.. That is, the 404 error noted above.
- Utilize one the current open-source (free) forum software packages and attempt to convert the database. Ongoing support and upgrades for these are spotty and we could find ourselves at a similar crossroads.
- Purchase a software license for current commercial forum software (not vBulletin as I am advised.) The current software would be installed by me and I would use one of the converters available to attempt to populate the new database with the current / existing data (registered users, threads, posts, directory structure, etc.) In other less technical words, it would look slightly different but the same content would be there.
From My Perspective
I would seriously hate to see 15,000 threads and 205,000 posts disappear.
Needless to say, this will take a tremendous amount of dedicated time in order to not have the forum shut down for a long period but I’m prepared to donate my time as I have been if…..
FYI: The latest versions of all commercial software have improved data and photo handling.
Purchase / License Options for Option 3 Above
There are many including: pay by month, pay by year, one time purchase plus a yearly option for ongoing support and upgrades. My preference would be the latter: purchase a license then pay a nominal fee yearly for the support and upgrade option.
Summary
While I’m prepared to move forward into the future and hopefully attract new users (or previous users or both), I’m not prepared to fund this migration. At the risk of sounding like I’m complaining, 20 years is enough.
As a result, funding would have to come from the community which raises a slew of other issues like:
- How many would “donate”?
- Would we collect enough? If we don’t, then we’re back to square one essentially.
- Should those who donate have special privileges? E.g. photo attachments, PMs, member stickers, etc. They could become “Members” and be shown as such and not simply registered users.
- Should there be donation levels? Again, what about special privileges?
Note: We have been down this road a few times over the years and there has always been support and opposition to financial support.
I have always been of the mindset that the few should not pay for the many (despite the fact that I was paying for the many). Hence the idea of special privileges.
There are other options and consideration for sure but my fingers are getting tired….
So, let’s discuss.
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