I've Closed The Previous "Crossroads" Thread
Overall Observation
As I write this, there have been essentially 1600 views (edited) to the “A Crossroads” thread with 77 replies (edited). 29 people (edited) contributed to the thread. That is, 29 people made one or more replies.
From my “vantage point”, I can see that the thread was visited many times by registered users not represented in the 29 as well as people not logged in (either registered users or guests). You can draw your own conclusions about the fact that 29 people took the time, or cared enough, to reply. My conclusion is implied in the phrasing of that last sentence.
I’ve read through all 75 posts a few times so I’ll attempt to summarize what is pertinent to the main question (options) outlined in the Thread “A Crossroads”.
To Reiterate Those Options
They were:
Option 1: Do nothing and simply wait for things to take a natural course at some point / let the forum die.
Option 2: Utilize one of the current open-source (free) forum software packages and attempt to convert the database. Ongoing support and upgrades for these are spotty and we could find ourselves at a similar crossroads.
Option 3: Purchase a software license for current commercial forum software. The current software would be installed by me and I would use one of the converters available to attempt to populate the new database with the current / existing data (registered users, threads, posts, directory structure, etc.)
There is a fourth option which I forgot to outline as it seems like a non-starter to me: That is, migrate to new software, either free or commercial, and not attempt a data migration. Dead simple but why…
Your Reactions To Those Options
Option 1: No one suggested that we should follow this path.
Option 2: Also didn’t really come up
Option 3: This is where most of the discussion centred. Specifically, about how the cost would be “shouldered” and what “privileges” should accompany a fee/donation (if any).
About Fees / Donations
After reading through all of the posts a few times (I hope I’m not making you weary again Keith), I created a list of those that either:
- specifically indicated they would donate
- indicated they would donate with a condition so-to-speak (like depending on how much)
- those that implied they would (but I wasn’t certain).
The list is below. I don’t believe I’ve missed anyone but could have added your Username in error because of my interpretation of your comments. If I did, I apologize.
NOTE: The list has been edited to add those that responded after the thread was started.
Rusty Olds
Stovbolt
K13
1Kool52
PG409
Tooltime
Shaune
JohnnyBgood
Bash and scratch
GFaRT
CDNflatlander
ratrig
58chev
Cword
Scotty
Old Ray
sqhd
56TBIRD
jvo
Taggart29
1950specialdeluxe
Fopar
wuga
Smoof
licensed to kill
Total=25
EDIT: Added to possible supporter list (+4)
Thank You All.
NOTE: There is no way of knowing if others will surface.
To Put Cost in Perspective Again
The best “deal” (versus a stripped down version) for a one-time license purchase is about $400 CAD. It varies depending on the US / CAD conversion rate. This includes the first 12 months of upgrades and support.
The ongoing yearly cost (for available upgrades and support) past the first 12 months is $120 CAD.
So, to move ahead, the spend would be either: approximately $400 or $520 which would extend support for 24 months (example July 2022).
Note: If not clear, feel free to ask for clarification. I am attempting to be as transparent as possible. Obviously, I would have to put this on a CC should we move forward.
About “Usergroups”
This is the terminology used by all the community forum software relating to those that “use” the forum. Currently, in this forum there are only three usergroup categories:
Administrators (me – who can do essentially anything)
Registered Users (can start threads in existing forum categories / reply to threads by others and delete their own posts)
Unregistered Users / Not Logged In (Guests/visitors and Registered Users not logged in) – can only view thread content and nothing else)
We’ll come back to Usergroups
Comments About Privileges
In dissecting the comments in the “A Crossroads” thread, there is a differing of opinion among a few people about the concept of privileges for those that donate. That is, ability to do things that non-supporters could not.
Many of the people that said they would donate didn’t comment on it but a handful did.
Specifically, some felt that someone who donated should have “Member” or “Supporter” privileges. A few others mentioned specifically that they didn’t care one way or the other OR definitively that there should not be privileges.
The example most frequently given is direct photo uploading. In other words, if you support through a donation you would have that “privilege”. If you did not, you would still have to link photos to an outside photo hosting site. This specific privilege is not uncommon in forums that have both supporters and those that choose not to. Just a bit of info – not attempting to steer the conversation one way or the other.
Coming back to usergroups, it is relatively straightforward to set up a “Supporter” usergroup that has access to defined functions not available to everyone.
In thinking about a fresh installation, I’ve brainstormed a number of functional areas that could be given or withheld. Such as:
Attachments (aka photos): As discussed above. Some forums won’t allow certain usergroups access to view the photos uploaded by others. At present, visitors here can see photos.
Media Gallery / Albums: Personal albums and contributions to a Forum media collection of images. Or even the ability to view the site media collection.
Classifieds: Access to or not. This has always been an area of controversy as there have been literally many hundreds who registered only to post one or more ads without any intention of contributing.
Private Messaging / aka Conversations: Many of the hundreds who registered to post an ad would subsequently email me looking for a way to PM.
Access To Specific Forums: That is, once again, access could be denied to certain areas.
Ads: While there are no ads now (not to be confused with sponsor ads), there will likely be in the future. Some forums will remove the ads for certain usergroups.
Badging / Titles: Progression of titles as we have here like junior poster, senior, etc. but accompanied by a badge that says “Supporter” for example.
Thank You Gifts: As mentioned elsewhere like stickers/decals that say Member or Supporter, etc.
There are various ways to slice this up but I’ve just listed these to give you an idea of what is possible when thinking about differentiating between usergroups (or not).
As I mentioned earlier, at least one person suggested that everyone (contributing or not) should have identical privileges. Even for me, this is a tough one as what would be the incentive to support the site financially other than to see it continue and flourish – which is an honourable enough reason. I should know (not being sarcastic).
I believe we need some agreement on this after some additional discussion. I would prefer not to mandate this as the support is potentially coming from you.
In Summary
While there are a lot of comments in the “A Crossroads” thread, I didn’t get an overwhelming sense that we were moving over the hurdles sequentially. What I’m saying is, there weren’t a lot responses that started by stating “Yes, I would like to see this Forum move forward” and “I am (or not) prepared to support it). Then, “let’s figure out how to do it”.
I am going on record by saying that I want this forum to continue and I will devote as much time as necessary to make it happen. I will continue to pay for the hosting fees and would keep a detailed accounting of any monies donated to this cause.
Having said that, we need to discuss all of the above again. If you have not commented yet, PLEASE take the time to offer an opinion or two. We’ll all thank you.
Happy Canada Day!
Now I'm "weary". Or "how I spent my Canada Day"
Overall Observation
As I write this, there have been essentially 1600 views (edited) to the “A Crossroads” thread with 77 replies (edited). 29 people (edited) contributed to the thread. That is, 29 people made one or more replies.
From my “vantage point”, I can see that the thread was visited many times by registered users not represented in the 29 as well as people not logged in (either registered users or guests). You can draw your own conclusions about the fact that 29 people took the time, or cared enough, to reply. My conclusion is implied in the phrasing of that last sentence.
I’ve read through all 75 posts a few times so I’ll attempt to summarize what is pertinent to the main question (options) outlined in the Thread “A Crossroads”.
To Reiterate Those Options
They were:
Option 1: Do nothing and simply wait for things to take a natural course at some point / let the forum die.
Option 2: Utilize one of the current open-source (free) forum software packages and attempt to convert the database. Ongoing support and upgrades for these are spotty and we could find ourselves at a similar crossroads.
Option 3: Purchase a software license for current commercial forum software. The current software would be installed by me and I would use one of the converters available to attempt to populate the new database with the current / existing data (registered users, threads, posts, directory structure, etc.)
There is a fourth option which I forgot to outline as it seems like a non-starter to me: That is, migrate to new software, either free or commercial, and not attempt a data migration. Dead simple but why…
Your Reactions To Those Options
Option 1: No one suggested that we should follow this path.
Option 2: Also didn’t really come up
Option 3: This is where most of the discussion centred. Specifically, about how the cost would be “shouldered” and what “privileges” should accompany a fee/donation (if any).
About Fees / Donations
After reading through all of the posts a few times (I hope I’m not making you weary again Keith), I created a list of those that either:
- specifically indicated they would donate
- indicated they would donate with a condition so-to-speak (like depending on how much)
- those that implied they would (but I wasn’t certain).
The list is below. I don’t believe I’ve missed anyone but could have added your Username in error because of my interpretation of your comments. If I did, I apologize.
NOTE: The list has been edited to add those that responded after the thread was started.
Rusty Olds
Stovbolt
K13
1Kool52
PG409
Tooltime
Shaune
JohnnyBgood
Bash and scratch
GFaRT
CDNflatlander
ratrig
58chev
Cword
Scotty
Old Ray
sqhd
56TBIRD
jvo
Taggart29
1950specialdeluxe
Fopar
wuga
Smoof
licensed to kill
Total=25
EDIT: Added to possible supporter list (+4)
Thank You All.
NOTE: There is no way of knowing if others will surface.
To Put Cost in Perspective Again
The best “deal” (versus a stripped down version) for a one-time license purchase is about $400 CAD. It varies depending on the US / CAD conversion rate. This includes the first 12 months of upgrades and support.
The ongoing yearly cost (for available upgrades and support) past the first 12 months is $120 CAD.
So, to move ahead, the spend would be either: approximately $400 or $520 which would extend support for 24 months (example July 2022).
Note: If not clear, feel free to ask for clarification. I am attempting to be as transparent as possible. Obviously, I would have to put this on a CC should we move forward.
About “Usergroups”
This is the terminology used by all the community forum software relating to those that “use” the forum. Currently, in this forum there are only three usergroup categories:
Administrators (me – who can do essentially anything)
Registered Users (can start threads in existing forum categories / reply to threads by others and delete their own posts)
Unregistered Users / Not Logged In (Guests/visitors and Registered Users not logged in) – can only view thread content and nothing else)
We’ll come back to Usergroups
Comments About Privileges
In dissecting the comments in the “A Crossroads” thread, there is a differing of opinion among a few people about the concept of privileges for those that donate. That is, ability to do things that non-supporters could not.
Many of the people that said they would donate didn’t comment on it but a handful did.
Specifically, some felt that someone who donated should have “Member” or “Supporter” privileges. A few others mentioned specifically that they didn’t care one way or the other OR definitively that there should not be privileges.
The example most frequently given is direct photo uploading. In other words, if you support through a donation you would have that “privilege”. If you did not, you would still have to link photos to an outside photo hosting site. This specific privilege is not uncommon in forums that have both supporters and those that choose not to. Just a bit of info – not attempting to steer the conversation one way or the other.
Coming back to usergroups, it is relatively straightforward to set up a “Supporter” usergroup that has access to defined functions not available to everyone.
In thinking about a fresh installation, I’ve brainstormed a number of functional areas that could be given or withheld. Such as:
Attachments (aka photos): As discussed above. Some forums won’t allow certain usergroups access to view the photos uploaded by others. At present, visitors here can see photos.
Media Gallery / Albums: Personal albums and contributions to a Forum media collection of images. Or even the ability to view the site media collection.
Classifieds: Access to or not. This has always been an area of controversy as there have been literally many hundreds who registered only to post one or more ads without any intention of contributing.
Private Messaging / aka Conversations: Many of the hundreds who registered to post an ad would subsequently email me looking for a way to PM.
Access To Specific Forums: That is, once again, access could be denied to certain areas.
Ads: While there are no ads now (not to be confused with sponsor ads), there will likely be in the future. Some forums will remove the ads for certain usergroups.
Badging / Titles: Progression of titles as we have here like junior poster, senior, etc. but accompanied by a badge that says “Supporter” for example.
Thank You Gifts: As mentioned elsewhere like stickers/decals that say Member or Supporter, etc.
There are various ways to slice this up but I’ve just listed these to give you an idea of what is possible when thinking about differentiating between usergroups (or not).
As I mentioned earlier, at least one person suggested that everyone (contributing or not) should have identical privileges. Even for me, this is a tough one as what would be the incentive to support the site financially other than to see it continue and flourish – which is an honourable enough reason. I should know (not being sarcastic).
I believe we need some agreement on this after some additional discussion. I would prefer not to mandate this as the support is potentially coming from you.
In Summary
While there are a lot of comments in the “A Crossroads” thread, I didn’t get an overwhelming sense that we were moving over the hurdles sequentially. What I’m saying is, there weren’t a lot responses that started by stating “Yes, I would like to see this Forum move forward” and “I am (or not) prepared to support it). Then, “let’s figure out how to do it”.
I am going on record by saying that I want this forum to continue and I will devote as much time as necessary to make it happen. I will continue to pay for the hosting fees and would keep a detailed accounting of any monies donated to this cause.
Having said that, we need to discuss all of the above again. If you have not commented yet, PLEASE take the time to offer an opinion or two. We’ll all thank you.
Happy Canada Day!
Now I'm "weary". Or "how I spent my Canada Day"
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