1950 Mercury custom build
- Thread starter K13
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Interesting stuff, keep it coming
Well that's the million dollar question and I haven't decided how I am going to approach it yet. I have to see how close the two sides of the car are to start with and then I will figure it out from there. If they are close I will probably use a flexible shape pattern.
I got drivers side fit and tacked in place. I have a couple of small filler pieces I still need to make but it's close to being ready to finish weld. It's hard to see in these picture but I seem to have a slight dip at the B pillar (that I didn't notice before) where the original B pillar and the new filler piece I made meet. It's almost like the top of the b pillar is twisted towards the inside of the car just slightly so I am going to have to figure out how I am going to correct that. It kind of looks like the frame itself dips as well but it's just the bottom lip is oversized and I haven't ground it back yet so it hangs down a bit lower than the front section.
Yup ..you can see the dip from the back.you using .18 gauge steel?
That's actual not a dip there where it looks like it in the photo. I think it just seems like it because there are three different textures right there. The dip is lower, right where I tacked the b pillar to the window frame and doesn't go up into the roof panel just right on that frame part. I am not even quite sure how it is low because the roof right above it is fine. so it's like the very top edge of the window frame is straight and everything below it dips in. It's not much a couple of mm's at most but it needs to be fixed. Yes I am using 18 gauge.
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Way beyond my pay grade....very nice work.
Make sure you post some pics of how you make the panel for the other side...
The comment you made about the pic not showing properly....... I have that problem regularly. Take a pic and it doesn't look quite right compared to how the panel actually looks and feels standing next to it. I suppose a professional photographer might know how to rectify that, but I sure don't.
Regardless, its looking good, but I have to tell everyone what Wray told Bob A. and I when we went to his class the first time. He says, I don't understand you hot rodders. You guys cut up a car's roof to chop it, and weld all those little pieces back together. Why don't you just build a new roof? We laughed like hell, except he was serious and we both knew it was way over our pay grade.
Regardless, its looking good, but I have to tell everyone what Wray told Bob A. and I when we went to his class the first time. He says, I don't understand you hot rodders. You guys cut up a car's roof to chop it, and weld all those little pieces back together. Why don't you just build a new roof? We laughed like hell, except he was serious and we both knew it was way over our pay grade.
I have a similar problem with my camera...when I take a picture of myself it makes me look older, shorter, fatter and have less hair than I think I am and really do. Cheap cameras or something..
Thought I'd comment on this. Wray will tell you, the first panel you make is art. The second panel you make that is the exact same as that, or the exact opposite for the other side, that is metal shaping.
Contour gauges work great for making one side the same as the other. I use cardboard from the pattern board that upholstery shops use, or scrap sheet metal. Or slip sheets from pallets. Don't use corrugated cardboard, edges aren't crisp enough.
These particular fenders are about 3 inches short of ten feet long. 1951 Jaguar. I had to make the back half pretty much from scratch, and most of the inner edges as well. Used cardboard patterns to make the other side.
Put all pertinent info on the contour gauge. Pics should tell the story.
So you can use the same set of patterns for both sides...just turn them around?
I am still not exactly sure what the caused the dip but I solved it by cutting a hole in the roof, splitting the outer skin from the inner b pillar and pushing it out. It may have just been a wonky pillar right from the factory as the other side is fine or perhaps I twisted it somehow when I put the slant in it but it's fixed. I also filled in all the other gaps so now on the to the other side.
chimp koose
Member
I have used a tile setters contour gage to get things even side to side . Its the same idea as the steel pin contour gage you get at princess auto except they are about a foot long and are plastic with thicker pins .they are about $10 at home depot and sure make comparing sides easy. I had to press out a crease in my T coupe quarter panel . I made one horizontal line at a specific height front to back on the quarter panels and then vertical lines every inch so I could compare at specific points . It was easy to use and showed where things needed to go. Some people can just feel a panel and know what is right , that person is not me.
OK so here is the plan for the other side. When I checked my pattern for the filler piece from the drivers side it was really close so my plan is to use a flexible shape pattern to get the passenger side to match. So first I have to make the pattern. I apply masking tape to the drives side roof. Then I mark some reference points on it. I use the beltline trim attachment holes for reference as they should be close from side to side. I then cover the masking tape with reinforced packing tape and regular packing tape. That gives me this.
So now I can peel this pattern off the drivers side and turn it inside out and use it for the other side.
Now the idea behind this is I lay it over the metal I am working for this side of the car and I wheel the metal until I get the metal to fill the space of this pattern. That will mean I have the same volume in the same areas as the drives side. Then I just need to manipulate the panel to put it into shape to fit .
Here is the pattern sitting on the flat sheet before I start shaping. You can see how much it is crowned above the panel so now I will wheel the panel until the pattern is a snug fit.
So now I can peel this pattern off the drivers side and turn it inside out and use it for the other side.
Now the idea behind this is I lay it over the metal I am working for this side of the car and I wheel the metal until I get the metal to fill the space of this pattern. That will mean I have the same volume in the same areas as the drives side. Then I just need to manipulate the panel to put it into shape to fit .
Here is the pattern sitting on the flat sheet before I start shaping. You can see how much it is crowned above the panel so now I will wheel the panel until the pattern is a snug fit.
So I wheeled the metal until I filled up the pattern and made it a snug fit. This is pretty close. There are still a few slight lows that I needed to bring up but it gives you the idea. The metal panel is under the pattern in this picture.
So that gives me the volume I needed then it was just a matter of twisting and stomping and pushing and pulling the metal until it fits properly into the area I want it. Normally you would use contour gauges like JVO showed to ensure it is perfect but given the nature of what I am doing and the multitude of vehicles these parts have come from I doubt any of it is perfectly symmetrical to start with so I just eyeballed it until it was pretty close. Still a bit more changing the shape needed (the front doesn't have enough curve to itso it's sitting a little high but that is all just hand work at this point. I will probably trim the panel a bit before I go too much farther with it.
So that gives me the volume I needed then it was just a matter of twisting and stomping and pushing and pulling the metal until it fits properly into the area I want it. Normally you would use contour gauges like JVO showed to ensure it is perfect but given the nature of what I am doing and the multitude of vehicles these parts have come from I doubt any of it is perfectly symmetrical to start with so I just eyeballed it until it was pretty close. Still a bit more changing the shape needed (the front doesn't have enough curve to itso it's sitting a little high but that is all just hand work at this point. I will probably trim the panel a bit before I go too much farther with it.
Interesting stuff. Keep it coming
This a great follow along.... looking always for a tip or two, and very likely I made my admission price already 
Thanks for very much!
Greg
Thanks for very much!
Greg
Lots of questions....So when you start to “wheel “ the metal where do you start..in the middle ,ends or what?..and which direction do you start with?..or do you do a little in each direction..and what do you do if you over stretch it and you get too much curve?...how do you get that out?...
First I want to preface this with the fact that I am far from knowledgeable on the english wheel so take this all with a huge grain of salt. I am pretty much just winging it. I wheel the areas that need the most volume first and I usually wheel along the length of a panel. When using the flexible pattern that is pretty easy to determine. Lay the pattern on the flat sheet and see where it bulges up the most. If you are doing a panel from scratch you just have to kind of figure where you think the most area will be.
The wheel puts shape into the panel in both directions regardless of the direction you wheel but puts slightly more crown in the direction you are wheeling. The panel arcs more over the crown of the anvil wheel than the length of the panel if that makes sense? The different crown anvil wheels are designed to allow you to put more or less crown in the panel so I always start with the lowest crown wheel I can use and then switch to higher crown wheels as I go. From there I decide the direction by where I need more crown based on the above.
If you put too much crown in the panel the only thing you can really do is wheel around it. That will bring the high spot down. Wheeling is a slow process so the best thing to do is check your progress often and sneak up on your shape. Don't use too much pressure as that will add shape faster, lead to more problems and also give you more pronounced wheel marks that you then have to planish out. The first side of my car probably took me 2 1/2 to 3 hours to wheel the second side, once I had a pattern to go off, probably an hour. It is not a fast process.
There are lots of good videos on YouTube, Proshaper, Lazze even Eastwood Company so I would suggest watching some of those as those guys actually know what they are doing. Ron Covell also has a really good DVD on the english wheel.
The final thing I will say is expect to make a LOT of scrap while you learn, and I do me a lot.
I hope this helps a little.
The wheel puts shape into the panel in both directions regardless of the direction you wheel but puts slightly more crown in the direction you are wheeling. The panel arcs more over the crown of the anvil wheel than the length of the panel if that makes sense? The different crown anvil wheels are designed to allow you to put more or less crown in the panel so I always start with the lowest crown wheel I can use and then switch to higher crown wheels as I go. From there I decide the direction by where I need more crown based on the above.
If you put too much crown in the panel the only thing you can really do is wheel around it. That will bring the high spot down. Wheeling is a slow process so the best thing to do is check your progress often and sneak up on your shape. Don't use too much pressure as that will add shape faster, lead to more problems and also give you more pronounced wheel marks that you then have to planish out. The first side of my car probably took me 2 1/2 to 3 hours to wheel the second side, once I had a pattern to go off, probably an hour. It is not a fast process.
There are lots of good videos on YouTube, Proshaper, Lazze even Eastwood Company so I would suggest watching some of those as those guys actually know what they are doing. Ron Covell also has a really good DVD on the english wheel.
The final thing I will say is expect to make a LOT of scrap while you learn, and I do me a lot.
I hope this helps a little.