"Soft" MIG wire

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Bgbkwndo

Well-Known Member
This subject may have been covered elsewhere in the past, but I cannot find it, if so. Firstly, by soft mig wire, I mean one that , after tacking or stitch welding, the bead can be hammered on dolly to stretch it without incurring cracking. I hope this description is adequate. Does or has anyone know of or used such a product.
If so, can you supply the product name, and where to purchase same.

Thanks for any leads......Bgbkwndo.
 
Hum, not sure if softer is the same as easy grind, the manufacture says it is.

So, I hated the grinding of mig welds because of the time it took and read about ESAB easy grind wire that I bought from Acklands. It was better / easier to grind but not that much but anything helps. Fast forward, it turns out that I think (as usual) the problem is ME, I cannot help but put down to much weld, although in some cases to get penetration on old old dirty steel (floorboards) I get burn thru and the resulting gob fix.

More fast forward, I ran out of wire this summer so picked up some at Lordco (no Acklands here) and it was as soft as the ESAB AND in the meantime I had upgraded my angle grinders (speed, power, and discs) and the grinding is going better.

http://www.esab.ca/ca/en/products/index.cfm?fuseaction=home.product&productCode=9492

Semi-trailer tie downs re-purposed as body mounts.

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Linc, I tried researching this for you and it seems the general condenses,IMO,
is the easy grind wire is still brittle to hammer out,same as regular wire. Also, it seems tig welding and even gas welding is the best for hammer and dolly work.
Hope this helps.
 
There use to be a lower tensile strength wire available but I haven't been able to find it for years.. I was told there wasn't enough demand for it? :(
 
ratrig said:
Hey Bash, I just talked to my welding rep regarding your situation and he says to give Silicon bronze wire a try. He sells a lot to body shops for that very reason. You can get it in 023 or 030. I would start with a 10lb spool to start with. here is some literature on pros and cons:

https://www.millerwelds.com/resources/article-library/silicon-bronze-mig-brazing-basics
Click to expand...

Thanks ratrig I will look into that.. however I wonder if it will have similar issues as brass? Anyone else give it a try?
 
Used it as an overlay on piston heads for cylinders So I'm not sure how it will affect paint but the fumes from it will make you sick as a dog if its the same stuff.
 
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Ron Covel has talked about Silicon Bronze in his column. Supposedly it does not cause the same issues with plastic filler as the old flux coated brass rod that we used back when I was an apprentice.
But, Silicon Bronze is not intended to be used on a butt welded joint.
Lap welds, ok, plug welds ok, fillet welds, ok, but butt weld joints on (steel) body panels should be welded with steel filler rod (or wire, depending on process) , using either Mig, tig or oxy-acetylene.
I bought some Silicon Bronze tig rod a couple years back, for what I was using it on 3/32" was too big (laying down too much fill), so I've picked up some 1/16" rod, but haven't had occasion to try it yet....


James
 
Bash and scratch said:
Thanks ratrig I will look into that.. however I wonder if it will have similar issues as brass? Anyone else give it a try?
Click to expand...

Neil, I use silicon bronze in tig rod on sheet metal with great results. It has a very low melting temperature. Never tried it on mig though but I would imagine it would be fine.

What issues do you mean with brass?? like painting over it etc I'm assuming.
 
James__WC said:
Ron Covel has talked about Silicon Bronze in his column. Supposedly it does not cause the same issues with plastic filler as the old flux coated brass rod that we used back when I was an apprentice.
But, Silicon Bronze is not intended to be used on a butt welded joint.
Lap welds, ok, plug welds ok, fillet welds, ok, but butt weld joints on (steel) body panels should be welded with steel filler rod (or wire, depending on process) , using either Mig, tig or oxy-acetylene.
I bought some Silicon Bronze tig rod a couple years back, for what I was using it on 3/32" was too big (laying down too much fill), so I've picked up some 1/16" rod, but haven't had occasion to try it yet....


James
Click to expand...

I've done some testing on it with but joints on 20 guage and was easily able to get full penetration welds with little to no distortion and then I did some destructive tests on the coupons and they all held up to a complete 180° bend, but I was using Tig.
 
If one was to try out silicon bronze I would think using a tig would be the cheapest method having to only buy a small quantity of rod. From looking at the "cons" on millers site, the wire, besides being more expensive, would be prone to birdsnesting thus a spoolgun would be preffered,which not many people have ($$)
 
I worked on a race car 25 years ago that had the fuel door opening filled with a plate welded to the body, & I was told it was with silicon bronze. This was done before I started working on it. I was initially concerned with the width of the bead and the fact that it looked a little like brass, but I was assured that it would be fine. It appeared to be a nice job, so rather than cut it out I just did the finish work over top. Minimal filler or high build.
The owner is very fussy with his cars. He wanted it finished like a show car. He then raced the car for years all over North America. As far as I know, there was never any problem with the finish over top of the weld.

This is the car and the stock fuel door would be about where the white decal is behind the rear wheel.

http://www.dragracecanada.com/images/setterslv.jpg
 
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Lee: I have a friend that does TONS of aluminum welding, and a few years back, he bought a 350 miller mig (might be a 350MP??), it has a set of drive rolls in the torch, so the wire is being pulled at the gun, and pushed by the drive rolls inside the machine by the wire spool. He loves it, and buying the large spools of wire is much more affordable than the little rolls that go into the spool gun:)
I'm sure this machine would also work well with the silicon bronze wire, but is on the spendy side for a hobbyist.
When I did my third year autobody back in 1983, @ NAIT, they had one mig set up with silicon bronze wire, it was something brand new, and none of the instructors had any experience with it.
I tried a couple 6" long passes on a couple of 18 or 20g coupons, and turned the whole coupon red hot:):) Methinks I was running a wee bit hot;)
Several years later (~1986?) we had a brand new Trans Am come in, the fellow had been on holidays in Kelowna, and came out of a restaurant to find a tree had fallen on the car, breaking the glass hatchback, one of the t roofs, and crushing the top of the car & the drivers quarter.
When I went to clean off the paint @ the joint between the quarter and the roof (in anticipation of melting the lead out of the joint), I discovered no big wide patch of lead, only a narrow band of bronze. So, it looks like some time in the early to mid eighties, they stopped stamping the QP's and roofs with the "recess" where they would previously have been spot welded together and then leaded, and were now just migging the joint and finishing it off with an 80g disc on a large grinder??



ratrig said:
If one was to try out silicon bronze I would think using a tig would be the cheapest method having to only buy a small quantity of rod. From looking at the "cons" on millers site, the wire, besides being more expensive, would be prone to birdsnesting thus a spoolgun would be preffered,which not many people have ($$)
Click to expand...
 
I thank all who have replied to my thread, it has been enlightening. I did find a source for Esab EG, but the smallest roll they have available is 11#; enough to last several lifetimes.
On a side note, regarding the silicon bronze posts, can I mention how I first learned how to use this product. Good...I'll be brief. I was working with a tinsmith
at P.G. Pulp and Paper. We were fabricating galvanized duct work, and the specs
dictated that the seams be seal "welded". Everdur bronze was the wire used and
the heat source was a D.C. welding machine. A 1/4" carbon rod [gouging rod] was used, about 3" in length and sharpened on one end like a pencil. The carbon was inserted into the rod holder, polarity set on electrode negative [straight pol.]
and about 50 amps on the dial. An arc was established right on the end of the wire, and the melted bronze flowed into the joint. Took a bit of practice, but I got it. Didn't take me long the set up a T.I.G. torch and try that method. Never went back to the carbon!

Bgbkwndo.
 
hooligan said:
What issues do you mean with brass?? like painting over it etc I'm assuming.
Click to expand...

Dean While I realize there would be no issue with flux like that from a braising rod. I still wonder about the dis-similar metals with expansion and contraction from temperature fluctuations. What can happen with brass is you will see a swelling at the seem until the two materials even out temperature wise. This may eventually cause cracking and or condensation under paint levels, blistering and even rust.
 
I've been thinking about your reply, Bash, regarding the different expansion rates of the two materials discussed here, and did a little sniffing around. In no way do I consider myself an engineer of any field, just trying to understand this problem.

I found a linear expansion table, and I'll list two materials close to silicon bronze, and steel. First, a brief definition:
Linear thermal expansion coefficient is defined as a material's fractional change in length divided by the change in temperature.

According to the tables I found, the following thermal expansion coefficients apply: Aluminum Bronze........9.0
Commercial Bronze......10.2
Steel alloy A36............6.5
Steel alloy 1020..........6.5

So as Bash has pointed out, the difference in expansion causes the problem. The expansion rates shown seem to be quite different from each other, so using
bronze to join panels to be painted may not be the way to go.

Just my $0.02 worth............Bgbkwndo.
 
Thanks for that research Bgbkwndo.. I am by no means an engineer either just personal experience. Now having said this about temperature and all,, one would most likely not have the issue on a rod as it most likely is not winter driven (at least not here) but on ones daily driver! I remember back when brass was the ticket, cars that were repaired with brass ie patch panels and the like, when they were brought in from the cold on a winters day, you could clearly and quite vividly see the brass line in the reflection on the finish till the car warmed up and reached a consistent temp. It was quite distinguished. Having seen your research on expansion co-efficient now it sure stands to reason as to why.

I might add that the new panel adhesives will react the same.
 
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Interesting. Would bondo and lead have the same effect as well? I'm sure they would both have different expansion rates than the steel under them? I'm curious about this. Is this what some people call "shadowing"?
 
jvo........I referred back to the coefficient of expansion tables from which I earlier quoted, and found this re: lead solder 5-95.....16.0
lead solder 20-80....14.8
lead solder 50-50....13.0
Further research would be required to find related info on Bondo.

Bgbkwndo.
 
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