Help with Ontario Ministry of Transport

B

BrutusV8

Member
I took my receipts, sworn declaration (Affidavit) and everything down to the local MTO office today to get my MTO assigned VIN. What I thought might be a quick visit, having researched this process to death, has become a real pain.

Part of the problem is the MTO office really has very little experience in registering "kit cars" so they deferred to Kingston. My car was built by me to look like a Lotus 7. The frame/body was built by me, the engine is from a '94 Camaro and was bought in the US at a scrap yard. I submitted receipts, I mentioned the books I used to help me built it, everything.

Apparently the one thing that I'm missing, and I think they're wrong about this, is some for of "Statement of Origin" for the engine. I don't have such a thing, and I have no idea how I would go about getting such a thing. I have the receipt for the engine, and the customs form for paying tax when crossing the border. Does anyone know what this is and why I would need one? I didn't see mention of anything like this from the "Registering Your Car in Ontario" web page on this site.

They seem to be very confused because the "kit" wasn't bought by a kit maker but rather built by me in my garage.

I've provided everything I think I need to provide, but this "Statement of Origin" seems to be the sticking point. Whomever they are talking to in Kingston swears I need this and I really don't know what to do at this point. We left things today with them taking copies of my receipts and they would do some more digging on their end and call me with what they find.

Is there anyone that can shed some light on this? Are there particular MTO offices that handle "kit cars" better than others? Someone I can talk to in the MTO that can talk to my local MTO office to clarify the rules?

I'm starting to get really concerned that I might not be able to register this car for the road.

Help! :)

Thanks,

Paul
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Check out Brutus - 1650lbs 300HP
http://www.brutusv8.com/
 
Paul,
Where in Ontario ya located? It's a big place.. ;)
Might want to fill in the location under User CP.
Have ya discussed your issue with someone from P.A.V.E.? They know their way around VIN Verification Forms and most likely someone would know about registering a kit car.
 
Techhead said:
Paul,
Where in Ontario ya located? It's a big place.. ;)
Might want to fill in the location under User CP.
Have ya discussed your issue with someone from P.A.V.E.? They know their way around VIN Verification Forms and most likely someone would know about registering a kit car.
Click to expand...

Sorry, I'm in Mississauga. Ontario is big, but 10:1 you live in the GTA. I've never heard of P.A.V.E. I'll be sure to check out the website.
 
Brutus, a few things:

  • The regs in Ontario relative to the use of "KIT" in the model field of the permit does not pertain necessarily to the concept of a kit (in terms of a bunch of pieces from one manufacturer). In fact, it normally relates to vehicles that have been built around replica bodies purchaed from specialty manufacturers. That is why the "make" field on a KIT permit has an abbreviation of the body manufacturer in it. I have gone through this process with a 1932 Ford Roadster replica body.
  • Because you have built the body and chassis, it is closer, in fact, to the definition of homebuilt. However...
  • Vehicles that are designated as model KIT are exempted from emission testing. It is unclear how homebuilts are treated as the concept of a complete homebuilt is rare.
  • The documentation I presented on the site has all the information provide form the Ministry an about KITS and Homebuilts. They say "The only motor vehicles which should be registered as 'homemade' by MTO, are motor vehicles where both the body and the chassis/frame have been completely constructed by the owner from scratch, without the benefit of a kit or a guide for assembly of the parts, or the purchase of a specialty frame or kit body, or a guide to construct the kit body and/or frame."
  • When I got the permit for the roadster, I had to show a bill of sale for the body indicating that it was from a manufacturer. If it had been a Ford body, and modified, it would have moved to the rebuilt classification which is a whole different ballgame.
  • About statement of origin: while I'm familair with the term generically, I was not asked to provide this relative to the registration process.. My affidavit stated what the engine was and where I got it (Canadian source).
  • Yes, knowledge can vary wildly at various offices. I had to basically tell them how to do it in my case but they still called Kingston.
p.s. PAVE = Professional Association of Vehicle Evaluators Professional Association of Vehicle Evaluators

You won't find anything there (sorry Techhead). In fact, many of them have thanked Canadian Rodder for posting the information.
 
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The MTO

Brutus,
What you really need is a hot rod friendly licence issuing office and go the homebuilt route for an unfit ownership, if it`s not road ready now. We are very lucky to have one here in London. Ask around, there have to be guys in Mississauga that have been down the same road. Maybe they can point you in the right direction
 
Rochie said:
Brutus,
What you really need is a hot rod friendly licence issuing office and go the homebuilt route for an unfit ownership, if it`s not road ready now. We are very lucky to have one here in London. Ask around, there have to be guys in Mississauga that have been down the same road. Maybe they can point you in the right direction
Click to expand...

The car is road ready now. All I'm missing is the VIN from the MTO and the safety from a local mechanic.

I think you're right though, what I need is a "kit car friendly" MTO office that know what they are doing.
 
also fellas,.... note these places on the board for future references and assistance.... this one seems ta rear its ugly lil' head all too frequently.... across the country.... fortunately some of us can find these freindly helpers...
 
BrutusV8 said:
Apparently the one thing that I'm missing, and I think they're wrong about this, is some for of "Statement of Origin" for the engine.
Click to expand...

Are they just asking for proof of where the engine was made? I looked at importing my Lincoln into the states and they said I have to proof origin of the car (I did say it was a Lincoln but that wasnt enough). In the VIN code it has manufacturing plant so you just show the proof of the code and the plant and its easy.
On your block you will have the engine number proving the type of engine etc, I am sure GM has a bible saying these blocks made at this plant etc etc
 
Go to a GM dealer as said above and get them to run the engine numbers . They put that info on a letter head . Should do it . Yrs ago I bought a 70 Pont strato cheif 2 dr hdtop from a buddy of mine . He had been summer driving it for like 5 - 6 yrs . No problems .When I went to change the ownership , the one he gave me was one digit short . Couldnt get a new ownership , went to dealer , they searched the serial number , Service manager came out checked vin tags . Signed off on it , done ..77.
 
I belive they want to check if the motor was from a stolen car as they want the original vehicle vin # from the car the motor came out of. Do you know anyone who scraps cars just get a vin # off a v8 g.m. car or truck that is going to the crusher.
 
If you need a vin# from a GM car that's already gone to the crusher, I still have the ownership. PM me if needed.;)
 
I think I remember reading in MTO regs that there are 2 catagories, 1-Kit car
2- home buit car. Which one are you trying register it as. Sounds to me like your "Home built" not "Kit" as you mentioned. Engine codes should work too. Hope it helps. Good Luck.
 
Brutus,
I found when living in the GTA area, I was better off going to a smaller, privately owned licensing office in places like Georgetown or Acton, they are more helpful, not staffed by government employees and less hung up on the smaller details. Not sure how many of this type are left in your area after Dalton went on a rage to close them a couple years ago and consolidate them into Service Ontario.
 
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