Gov't of Ontario -Hot Rod Emissions

When I had my shop in bc I had lots of orginal cars wanting to get a collector l/plate for the simple reason that once you changed the reggy to a modified status you could put a declared value on it. Very handy when an old Ford is only worth about $500 bucks.One of the steps was a passed pre 1980 aircare test but I don't think even one passed and most failed miserbly.I know these guys are trying to do their job but they are failing badly in repect to say a 36 ford with a stock flatty that was never designed to run clean, compaired to the same car with an lt1.Stock flatty very eye watering out the rear, lt1 with no cats,egr,etc
very clean and a hell of a lot better emission wise but moe would rather have the bad one.

#1)Standards for a 350 chev in 1975



Driving Mode HC Standard:

230 parts per million



Driving Mode CO Standard:

1.69 percent



Driving Mode NOx Standard:

2183 parts per million



Idle Mode HC Standard:

359 parts per million

#2) 1989 tpi 350 chev


Driving Mode HC Standard:

87 parts per million



Driving Mode CO Standard:

0.58 percent



Driving Mode NOx Standard:

871 parts per million



Idle Mode HC Standard:

76 parts per million



Idle Mode CO Standard:

0.43 percent

These numbers are easy to acheve with no cats just a little lap top work to tweak the ecm

lets stay political correct and do the wrong thing:confused:
just my two cents worth:(

Randy
 
I have an interesting question.... what if the engine was built totally from aftermarket components including block and heads. With an engine VIN that is not compatible to any OEM manufacturer, how can they state what the emissions were originally.

Russ
 
wrascal said:
I have an interesting question.... what if the engine was built totally from aftermarket components including block and heads. With an engine VIN that is not compatible to any OEM manufacturer, how can they state what the emissions were originally.

Russ
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I'm sure that is what they are calling a crate engine and it's not allowed at all on the hiway:mad:

Randy
 
wrascal said:
I have an interesting question.... what if the engine was built totally from aftermarket components including block and heads. With an engine VIN that is not compatible to any OEM manufacturer, how can they state what the emissions were originally.

Russ
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V8 Deuce is right !!
When I sat down and had a meeting with the MOE, I brought a GM performance catalog with me and asked what would happen if I put a 350 crate engine (ZZ4) in a 1950's car. Their answer was that engine is designed for off-road use only. We all know that's BS, and that GM made these engines as a replacement for older cars, but there is a disclaimer in the catalog that GM will not be liable for local emission infractions.
I also asked, what about if we put in an engine that was originally in a boat, like a 350 Mercruiser? Same thing !! Off-road only.
 
From reading MOE's circular in post #1, it appears they have had a change of heart about crate engines. Despite their previous insistence that crate engines were not legal for on-road use, their example in the Q&A section clearly states that crate engines do NOT require any emissions control equipment since they didn’t come with any, and it’s logical that an engine built piece-by-piece would be the same. They say they will then use the age of the vehicle to determine the actual tail pipe emissions if – and that’s a big IF – an officer sends the car in for testing (which I think is highly unlikely but legally possible.) The example they use is a 2011 crate engine in a 2005 vehicle which would require it to meet 2005 tail pipe standards, but for a 50’s car with a crate engine the 1980 rules would apply from what I can tell. This might be doable, but obviously a folder full of receipts in the glove box would go a long way to proving the pedigree of the engine. It looks like MOE has backed off somewhat on this issue.
 
By reading there independant study 99-05 even if you are ordered in for a test and you fail you are not required to make any repairs unless the cop who issued the original test order issues another demanding that the vehicle passes. as of 05 this is how it stood there was mention of that changing but i have yet to find any proof that it has. Pay your fine go an as nothing happend. by the way 99-05 study done buy a firm in texas.? by looking at there web site anything after 05 they made up themself and added a tag on to the original to make it look like a carry on of the original. if you look at the original then at years 05 up you will see what I mean.
 
Hello all. I joined this forum because of these regulations and think the previous posters are correct in that we should figure out a way to band together and make our case visible to the public. I think the MOE is just using these regulations as a back door method of enforcing a clunker law that they know won't fly. I think sending your letters to your MPP is a good start but if you want to make a fuss in Parliament you need to convince this guy he can get your vote. My next letter is going to him.

http://www.ontla.on.ca/web/members/members_detail.do?locale=en&ID=7181


And for you NDPers:
http://www.ontla.on.ca/web/members/members_detail.do?locale=en&ID=7172

Jim
 
GMJim, thanks for your input. I breifly checked the links you provided. How do we know that the people mentioned in those links will support any kind of emission legislation that's favourable to the car hobbyist? I tried contacting the MPP in my riding, and all I've gotten so far is just a form response from her assistants. I didn't even get a direct response from her.
By the way, I'm sure that there are other folks on the forums that wouldn't mind knowing a bit about you. You might want to introduce yourself in the introduction section of the forums.
 
clean8485 said:
GMJim, thanks for your input. I breifly checked the links you provided. How do we know that the people mentioned in those links will support any kind of emission legislation that's favourable to the car hobbyist? I tried contacting the MPP in my riding, and all I've gotten so far is just a form response from her assistants. I didn't even get a direct response from her.
By the way, I'm sure that there are other folks on the forums that wouldn't mind knowing a bit about you. You might want to introduce yourself in the introduction section of the forums.
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We need a voice in government that will speak for us. Generally the opposition critics will attack anything they feel will cause a negative picture of the government in power. Our only hope is if enough of us write in the opposition party will see a potential for support votes to get them elected. Chip away at this where ever possible and hopefully it will add up to a big enough issue to make the government look foolish (as if they already haven't done that?) and abandon the classic car/Hot Rod witch hunt. It's not going to single handedly win the fight but it might help. We need to cover all bases. I'm tired of this governments anti everything but golf attitude! Come to think of it I'll bet the total emissions output of all the golf carts in Ontario is higher than our hobby car output in a season.
Jim
 
GMJim said:
I'm tired of this governments anti everything but golf attitude! Come to think of it I'll bet the total emissions output of all the golf carts in Ontario is higher than our hobby car output in a season.
Jim
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Not to mention the emissions and poisonous run off from the excessive fertilizers they spread/spray to keep the greens green.:(
 
I've read the posts, I've read the Ontario emissions document, I know people who have been stopped and fined in excess of $2500.00, I've seen it all and it's still gobbily gook. Without a witch burning or revolution, all I want are the facts. For a 1930's vehicle with a 1968 engine installed after 2000, emission standards of 1980 must be met. What are the emission standards of 1980. Must Cats be installed, what about a recirculation pump, how many parts per million? Has anyone been through this and been told specifically what standard they must meet? Does the same standard of emission apply to every vehicle make and every engine make regardless or is each install judged on it's own merit and up to the discretion of the testing officer?
 
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