Gov't of Ontario -Hot Rod Emissions
- Thread starter bgbdlinc
- Start date
it would appear the imports get handled with kid gloves in comparison.
"What are the emission requirements for a 2004 Honda with the original engine that has been modified with performance parts, (i.e., turbocharger, cold air intake, etc.)?
A: This vehicle must:
meet the visible emission standards
meet the emission standards for the model year of the vehicle (2004)
have all the original emissions control equipment, or its equivalent, attached and functioning.
FYI, even though this vehicle has been modified, it is not considered to be a “hot rod”. That’s because the modification to the engine (turbocharger) did not change the engine, which was available to buyers of that make and model year of vehicle."
"What are the emission requirements for a 2004 Honda with the original engine that has been modified with performance parts, (i.e., turbocharger, cold air intake, etc.)?
A: This vehicle must:
meet the visible emission standards
meet the emission standards for the model year of the vehicle (2004)
have all the original emissions control equipment, or its equivalent, attached and functioning.
FYI, even though this vehicle has been modified, it is not considered to be a “hot rod”. That’s because the modification to the engine (turbocharger) did not change the engine, which was available to buyers of that make and model year of vehicle."
slim
Well-Known Member
Historic vehicels exempt , kit cars exempt . reading that mumbo jumbo they left a lot open to interpitation . never good . this deal with parsons canada still stinks and Im sure is the driving force keeping this useless program alive . Someones getting rich off this scam and its not me. That piss's me off even more
Where did you read that exactly? Are you sure you read it right?
From what I can tell, historic vehicles and kit cars are exempt from Drive Clean testing. But they are still expected to meet the emissions standards for their respective model years if spot checked on the roadside by the Smog Patrol or the cops.
And in the case of kit cars, the model year is the year of the motor. So if you build a kit car today with a crate motor bought yesterday, you would have to meet a 2012 model year emissions standard. Good luck.
Please enlighten me if I've got my facts wrong.
In British Columbia the government is winding down the testing of cars and light trucks and going to concentrate on heavy vehicles only.
I should point out that Aircare in B.C. only applies to the lower mainland area only from Hope to Vancouver. It does not cover Vancouver Island or the interior areas.
The theory is that most of the cars/pickups on the road are newer and mostly emissions compliant.
My only worry is that next year we are going to have an NDP government again and they are NOT hobby car friendly.
Things could change.
Perhaps someone could enlighten me on the Old Car lobby groups currently operating in Ontario and how much influence they may have.
Good luck guys !!!
I should point out that Aircare in B.C. only applies to the lower mainland area only from Hope to Vancouver. It does not cover Vancouver Island or the interior areas.
The theory is that most of the cars/pickups on the road are newer and mostly emissions compliant.
My only worry is that next year we are going to have an NDP government again and they are NOT hobby car friendly.
Things could change.
Perhaps someone could enlighten me on the Old Car lobby groups currently operating in Ontario and how much influence they may have.
Good luck guys !!!
slim
Well-Known Member
Ok here's an interesting tidbit . expect more failues across the board and they go on like they are doing you a favor
Starting in 2012, Drive Clean is phasing in a new testing technology that, by 2013, is expected to reduce emissions from on-road vehicles by 20 per cent over what can be achieved with the current test.
Here is there list of exempt vehicels
Vehicles exempt from Drive Clean testing requirements:
While 1987 and older light-duty vehicles are exempt from Drive Clean, they are still subject to the Environmental Protection Act. Anywhere in Ontario, Provincial Officers can stop and inspect a vehicle suspected of emitting excessive exhaust smoke or of having emissions control equipment tampered with or removed. Penalties include warnings, notices, tickets and summonses. For serious infractions, officers can use legally binding Provincial Officer Orders, and/or seize vehicle licence plates.
what I got for now hope this helps
Starting in 2012, Drive Clean is phasing in a new testing technology that, by 2013, is expected to reduce emissions from on-road vehicles by 20 per cent over what can be achieved with the current test.
Here is there list of exempt vehicels
Vehicles exempt from Drive Clean testing requirements:
- all hybrid vehicles (those powered by a combination of internal combustion engines and electric motors)
- vehicles manufactured before 1988
- vehicles currently designated as “Historic” under the Highway Traffic Act
- light-duty commercial farm vehicles
- kit cars
- motorcycles
While 1987 and older light-duty vehicles are exempt from Drive Clean, they are still subject to the Environmental Protection Act. Anywhere in Ontario, Provincial Officers can stop and inspect a vehicle suspected of emitting excessive exhaust smoke or of having emissions control equipment tampered with or removed. Penalties include warnings, notices, tickets and summonses. For serious infractions, officers can use legally binding Provincial Officer Orders, and/or seize vehicle licence plates.
what I got for now hope this helps
slim
Well-Known Member
We need more gay lesbian transgender rodders . They would stick that smog hose were it belonged. Dorian
Yes, this is pretty much what I wrote about before, on this previous thread. There appears to be two balls in play, here.
Historic vehicles and kit cars are exempt from Drive Clean testing -- i.e., when you renew your plates/registration or when you transfer the ownership -- but they don't seem to be exempt from Drive Clean emissions standards as set out in the Environmental Protection Act and Regulations. This strikes me as a very confusing double standard. And I shudder to think of the conversation I'd have with a Smog Patrol officer or cop during a roadside check or car show "sting."
I own a kit car (427 Cobra replica), but I'm not the original owner/builder. My car was first built and lawfully certified and registered, without having to pass a Drive Clean test. Its ownership has lawfully been transferred a few times before coming into my possession, without having to pass a Drive Clean test. I've lawfully renewed the registration for several years now, without having to pass a Drive Clean test.
But apparently the Smog Patrol and cops have the authority to randomly conduct a roadside check and/or order a Drive Clean test of my car, with penalties ranging from fines to the seizure of my plates. WTF!!
You can see why this whole subject has me very worried...
TIME TRAVELLER
Active Member
I think that people are getting too excited about the possibility of being forced to undergo a test at a Drive Clean facility here in Ontario with a rod or kit car that doesn’t fit into the usual 2 year testing cycle. While this is legally possible, I doubt if it’s being done very often, if at all, right now. The much bigger issue is the overzealous enforcement of the emission equipment rules by MOE’s enforcement staff during roadside inspection “blitzes”. While MOE officers can force a vehicle into a DC centre for an actual tail pipe test, their focus seems to be on inspecting vehicles for the equipment that their big book (they use the “MOTOR Emission Control Systems Application” manual) says the car must have, and to lay charges based on that inspection. That really is the big problem in Ontario, not Drive Clean.
If you can prove your car was built before January 1st 1999, you have nothing to worry about. If it was built after that date, then you will need to pass 1980 standards. If you're running a newer engine like a crate motor, or something from a donor car, you will have to meet the emission standards for the year of the engine.
You have contacted your MP to put a complaint in about this law? Haven't you?
I hope you're right about that, as I have no way to tell if this is the case.
But at the risk of sounding like Chicken Little, it seems to me that as long as the rules are on the books they way they are, there's a realistic chance that the MOE will enforce them some day. Overzealously or not.
My individual position is weak under the current laws. But I'm prepared to join a group effort to lobby for change on behalf of all hobby car owners.
The way things are going, the day will come soon when the government will be testing the emissions from there too!
That's great, but right now the most important thing you/we can all do is flood the desks of our elected officials and state our displeasure with this law. If we don't all stick together on this, we will only have ourselves to blame.
Are we more concerned about the 'people' enforcing the law, and not the law itself as it has been written ... 
As the driver of a pre 1980 car, I would hate to be told to go through the Drive Clean and meet the 1980 standards ...
Q: What are the emission requirements for a 1968 Chevy with the original engine?
A: This vehicle must:
•meet the visible emission standards
•meet the emission standards for the model year of the vehicle (1968). As there were none, the car must meet the emissions standards for 1980 and earlier model year vehicles if a provincial officer asks for a Drive Clean test
•have all the original emissions control equipment, or its equivalent, attached and functioning.
FYI, this vehicle is not considered to be a “hot rod’ because it has the original engine for the make and model year. This is true even if it has other modifications.
It would seem foolish to test any 50's or 60's and probably 70's car on their machine, but that appears to be how the law is written. Some over zealous 'person' could use the same rational as being applied here to the owner of the '1968 Chevy' on my car ... but the only thing they could learn from testing my 1954 Cadillac with the origional motor and 100,000+ miles on it, would be how to clean up the insides of their machine ...
It seems to give them too much 'discretion' how they want to apply the law and justify their jobs ...
Saying that it must meet the visible emission standards and still have the emission controls (of the year of the car), if any, attached would be more 'reasonable' for any pre 1980 car, modified (newer engine or crate motor) or not ...
As the driver of a pre 1980 car, I would hate to be told to go through the Drive Clean and meet the 1980 standards ...
Q: What are the emission requirements for a 1968 Chevy with the original engine?
A: This vehicle must:
•meet the visible emission standards
•meet the emission standards for the model year of the vehicle (1968). As there were none, the car must meet the emissions standards for 1980 and earlier model year vehicles if a provincial officer asks for a Drive Clean test
•have all the original emissions control equipment, or its equivalent, attached and functioning.
FYI, this vehicle is not considered to be a “hot rod’ because it has the original engine for the make and model year. This is true even if it has other modifications.
It would seem foolish to test any 50's or 60's and probably 70's car on their machine, but that appears to be how the law is written. Some over zealous 'person' could use the same rational as being applied here to the owner of the '1968 Chevy' on my car ... but the only thing they could learn from testing my 1954 Cadillac with the origional motor and 100,000+ miles on it, would be how to clean up the insides of their machine ...
It seems to give them too much 'discretion' how they want to apply the law and justify their jobs ...
Saying that it must meet the visible emission standards and still have the emission controls (of the year of the car), if any, attached would be more 'reasonable' for any pre 1980 car, modified (newer engine or crate motor) or not ...
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The way that I see it, the double standard requiring vehicles that are exempt from Drive Clean testing to still have to meet Drive Clean emissions equippment requirements is the problem. If a car, pick-up or van is older than 1988 it is exempt from Drive Clean testing, therefore, it should also be exempt from the Drive Clean emissions equippment requirements. IMO the law should read something like this. All aftermarket equippment and engine modifications should be legal for pre-1988 vehicles. However, it could still be required to pass a visual test (to detect burning oil or overly rich mixture) if it was seen to be smoking excessivly. Then the owner could be given a written notice to fix the problem within 15 days or 30 days or whatever. IMO this would be fair. As for crate engines, they should be legal for vehicles manufactured before 1988. When installed in pre-1988 vehicles, crate engines should be treated the same as any other pre-1988 vehicle/engine combination, they should be exempt. Crate engines should be legal for newer vehicles too but, if a crate engine is installed in a vehicle that was manufactured after 1988, it should be required to meet the minimum emissions equippment standards for the year of vehicle and pass a Drive Clean test. Again, all aftermarket equippment and engine modifications would be legal for vehicles manufactured after 1988 if they did not interfere with the operation of the emission controls or cause the vehicle to fail the actual Drive Clean test. IMO that is basically how the law should be written. The existing legislation is unclear, too complicated and not based on common sense. Anyway, definitely do not take this one lying down. Good luck guys.
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Are we more concerned about the 'people' enforcing the law, and not the law itself as it has been written ...
As the driver of a pre 1980 car, I would hate to be told to go through the Drive Clean and meet the 1980 standards ...
Q: What are the emission requirements for a 1968 Chevy with the original engine?
A: This vehicle must:
•meet the visible emission standards
•meet the emission standards for the model year of the vehicle (1968). As there were none, the car must meet the emissions standards for 1980 and earlier model year vehicles if a provincial officer asks for a Drive Clean test
•have all the original emissions control equipment, or its equivalent, attached and functioning.
FYI, this vehicle is not considered to be a “hot rod’ because it has the original engine for the make and model year. This is true even if it has other modifications.
It would seem foolish to test any 50's or 60's and probably 70's car on their machine, but that appears to be how the law is written. Some over zealous 'person' could use the same rational as being applied here to the owner of the '1968 Chevy' on my car ... but the only thing they could learn from testing my 1954 Cadillac with the origional motor and 100,000+ miles on it, would be how to clean up the insides of their machine ...
It seems to give them too much 'discretion' how they want to apply the law and justify their jobs ...
Saying that it must meet the visible emission standards and still have the emission controls (of the year of the car), if any, attached would be more 'reasonable' for any pre 1980 car, modified (newer engine or crate motor) or not ...
I agree with you that this is a problem. Why should an original 1940s, 1950s or 1960s vehicle etc. be expected to meet a standard that wasn't in force until decades after they were built? It's ludicrous!
It is ludicrous. Cars are registered according to the year that the car was manufactured. By that logic, they should not be required to meet standards that were not in place at the date they were manufactured. Cars manufactured after 1988 are required by law to pass a Drive Clean test. OK, fine. However, because cars are registered by the year of the car, no car should be expected or required to meet a standard that wasn't in place when the car left the factory even if the engine is not the original engine. The only thing that should matter is the year of the car!