Regular Use Insurance for Hot Rods (Ontario).

Chopchop

Member
Hi


My regular insurance company refuses to insure any vehicle that has been modified so they won't touch my old hot rod.

Zehr insurance brokers recently changed their restrictions. They used to allow you to do anything you wanted with your classic / hot rod EXCEPT go to work with it and you had to keep the annual usage under 5000 kms.
Now, the vehicles have to be kept in a locked garage, can only be used to go to and from a car show or in a parade and cannot be left unattended unless the car is at a car show. I don't go to many car shows, I've never been in a parade and I don't have enough locked, indoor parking for all my old cars.


I did a search through the archives here but I haven't been able to find any recent information pertaining to this:

-- I want to use my old cars as regular drivers.

-- We all know that classic / antique insurance severely limits a vehicle's usage. Yes the rates can be ultra-low but if you follow the letter of what the insurance company tells you, you can't use the vehicle for "regular" transportation.

-- I've been told by Silver Wheel and Zehr Insurance brokers that I cannot use my old cars to go to work or to go to the store or leave unattended for any period of time ( ie: left alone in a parking lot as I go into the store or the mall). That type of thing is a strict "NO NO".


Can anyone please turn me onto an Ontario insurance company that will insure hot rods, 70's-era kit cars / replicars and homebuilt vehicles as "regular use vehicles" ?


I'm at my wit's end with this. After decades of playing with old cars / hot rods, I'm seriously thinking about throwing in the towel. It's clear that the insurance companies don't want to deal with anything out of the ordinary and my cars are just that - out of the ordinary. Unless I stay with a classic car type of insurance plan, I can't drive the vehicles at all because no insurance company I've spoken to will insure them.

Since the classic car insurance plans I've found severely limit when and where (and how much) I can drive my cars, they are essentially useless to me.

Does anyone have a contact for a company that will insure hot rods / replicas and homebuilt vehicles?


Thanks in advance,

Dave
 
Generally speaking, there are very few, if any insurance companies that will insure a "modified" vehicle.

A classic with an original engine, no problem except you don't get agreed to value, just scrap if totalled.

The general rule they use is if the vehicle didn't come with that size engine, even as an option, its classed as modified.
For example, a 1956 Ford F100 came with either a 6 cylinder but mostly with a 272CI V8, but you could get a dealer installed option of a 312CI. So the insurance company would insure it. But install a 352CI, no deal.
Another example. Say you bought a 1969 Mustang with a 6 cylinder and then dropped in a Boss 429. They would insure it for driving to/from work or as a daily driver as the Boss 429 was an optional engine for that year Mustang. But drop in an injected 5.0 litre from a newer Mustang, no deal.

Same rules applies to transmissions. If it didn't come with that year vehicle, even as an option, then its a "modified" vehicle.

You can usually upgrade a classic vehicles braking system based on safety, or with era correct options, but beyond that, NOTHING else.

I think Zehr Insurance brokers are possibly interpreting the rules as they see fit.
I have the Silver Wheel plan through Hagerty/Avivia and there is no milage restrictions but yes, not to and from work or as a daily. So you can drive it around, not just to shows and back or to auto services. You can go for a cruise.
If you have a Hot Rod truck, you can't use it to haul stuff.
And yes, they do discourage you from going to shopping malls, unless there is a "show".
 
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Hey: Chopchop.

I don't know why your having a problem..I sometimes wonder if if has anything to do with your past insurance issue ..Just sayin..as I am not sure.

I have my rod 48-Ford Coupe hot-rodded and I have it insured with my regular insurance company that I have my everyday vehicles insured with..The ins-company is Economical ,My broker is just local as your broker would be..I don't know if it makes any difference or not ,but I have the same ins company for 25-30 years..

my wife totalled one suv spent several months in hospital , and almost a year in therapy ..Her fault, she hit a tree, we never got penalized as we had a forgivness rider on our policy..

My only hassel is, I have to leave the policy on all year, no cancelling over the winter storage months,I had an appraisel and it is insured for a agreed amount ..Other than that, no restrictions, I can drive it just like my family ride..Wierd but I had always had my rides/rods insured with them ..I found the specialty ins companys would insure me as long as I never drove the car..and I want to drive where and when I want. When I can no longer do that I will be finished with this hobby.. We only get about 5 months a year to enjoy cruisin and I don't mind paying a bit extra for the prividge of driving when I want..

I think it's all the other hassels with the MOE and all the other azzhole rules and regulations that will grind me down..So far I have never had an issue with insuring my cars with my reg insurance company ..touch wood...


heres to a great summer and lots of cruisin...looks to be a busy year..for Ontariorodders.com
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Hi Fatchuck,

Thank you for the information. I will call Economical insurance next week. Nobody's answering the phone today (Saturday). I've never even heard of them.

I haven't had an accident, ticket or claim in almost 25 years (knock on wood) so it's not my record that's the problem, it's my cars. I have a completely, massively cut up hot rodded truck and some replicas that nobody wants to insure as daily drivers. The only insurance I can find is specialty car insurance (Silver Wheel, Zehr, etc....) and they explicitly forbid regular use. God forbid you drive it to the grocery store and leave it unattended - that is an absolute NO NO!!!!!!

I will post back here with my insurance findings. Maybe others can gain from the information I will receive from the insurance companies.

I hope your wife has fully recovered from her accident.

Thanks again!

Dave


Edit: I called around and found a broker who's open today and he deals with Economical. He told me that his brokerage does not deal with vehicles more than 15 years old unless the vehicles are insured under a classic car policy.

He told me that some brokers who deal with Economical may do an old car but I'd have to call around and try to find one. Fatchuck, could you please post or P.M. me your broker's phone number so I can see if they will insure my cars?

Thank you,
Dave
 
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Dave, I sent you an email.

The reason that the classic car programs (all of them) have limitations is because of the Agreed Value Coverage policies that they are writing. That is, what is called a "OPCF#19A" policy based on agreed value in the event of a complete loss.

Standard automobile policies are Stated Value endorsement (OPCF 19) based on fair market value.
 
Hi Frank

Thanks for the info and the e-mail. I will follow up on your suggestions-thank you.

I have to have appraisals for the appraised "value" of my cars but I don't always agree with the price the guy writes on the appraisal. I guess that's probably still classified as "agreed value" though. My dad is with a company that has true agreed value - he sent pictures of his car in via e-mail, told them he figured his car was worth $7000, they agreed and he was off and running.

I'll post more here next week after I get more information. Thank you again!


Dave
 
Dave, agreeing on the value with your appraiser has nothing to do with the type of policy - only your appraisal.

An "Agreed Value Policy" (19a) has the guaranteed value (in the case of a total loss) written into the policy. The insurance underwriter must agree to the value before they will write the policy.

A standard auto policy (19) does not. Claims are settled on fair market value and appraisals prior to writing the policy are not required up front.
 
I know of several guys with newer Mustangs (2005+) who have them heavily modified and up until recently were driving around with insurance that was intended for factory built cars. The one guy is rumoured to have $100,000 worth of mods done and never bothered to get it appraised or any special insurance. But then I heard recently that one of the companies (Haggerty?) was now accepting newer modified cars.

I can't remember which company it was that I was talking to... but when I was inquiring about classic car insurance, they were telling me that I couldn't have a daily driver that was more than 5 years old if I wanted to insure a classic with them. For some people that might not be a problem.... but for others it's just not affordable. So I've got a 11 year old Ford that I'm using as my DD. They're essentially saying that I need to go buy myself a new DD before they will insure my classic. What a crock of BS.
 
I have no answers or anything useful to add to this but I sure sympathize with you that are affected. Seems very restrictive. I wonder who inaugurates these rules, it's all driven by money.
Sask has government insurance, people knock it but maybe they need to look elsewhere....yet another reason to stay here.
 
I think it has a lot to do with your past with your insurance company. I have been insured with the Co-operators for 40 plus years, auto and house. In most of that time I have had a modified car. Never a hassle. Never a claim on them either,maybe that helped. This was just regular auto insurance, drive any time anywhere.
I think someone who is new to a company is going to get a different reaction.
 
For probably 10 years I was with an insurance brokerage that treated me very well. I've never owned (or been able to afford) a new car but for years I had all my cars -- my regular beaters and a '71 and a '61 with this brokerage as daily drivers. Then one day (out of the blue), I received a registered letter from them saying they would no longer insure my old cars.

I called the brokerage and they said that the underwriter would no longer insure "such old cars" as regular-use vehicles and I would have to move to classic car insurance for the '71 and the '61. They told me to call Silver Wheels.

I called Silver Wheels, they told me of their restrictions (which didn't even come close to working for me because I drove the '71 to work all winter long as long as there wasn't too much snow on the road) and the '61 every other day. I only drove my beater in snow storms.

Silver Wheel's restrictions would not allow me to drive my cars to work EVER. I couldn't even drive them to the grocery store or God forbid, leave them unattended at the mall!
To top it off, Silver Wheel's rates were MORE than I paid to have the cars as daily drivers!!

You want the real rub?

My cars had been insured through my insurance brokerage with Avia.
Avia was (probably still is) the underwriter for Silver Wheels.

So Avia wouldn't insure my "classics" as regular use vehicles but for more money, they'd be willing to insure those cars under severely restricted use.
Silver Wheels specifically told me I could ONLY use the cars to go to and from car shows, use in parades and to go back and forth to the mechanic.

And as I've posted before, I haven't had an accident, ticket or claim in probably 25 years. (I think my last ticket was in '91.) Knock on wood.

Absolute B.S. I tell every insurance company I speak to that all I've done for the last 25 or so years is give them money. I've never claimed any damage, I've never caused any damage but they still give me nothing but grief.

I'm hoping to talk to at least one or two insurance people today and will post back here when I get more concrete information.

Thanks for everyone's input on this so far,

Dave
 
I know of several guys with newer Mustangs (2005+) who have them heavily modified and up until recently were driving around with insurance that was intended for factory built cars. The one guy is rumoured to have $100,000 worth of mods done and never bothered to get it appraised or any special insurance. But then I heard recently that one of the companies (Haggerty?) was now accepting newer modified cars.

A very dangerous "game" to play.

A lose-win situation for both of guys. Get into an accident, insurance could be null and void, and one stands to lose a lot of money on top of it. Total win for the insurance companies = no payout.
 
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I have no answers or anything useful to add to this but I sure sympathize with you that are affected. Seems very restrictive. I wonder who inaugurates these rules, it's all driven by money.
Sask has government insurance, people knock it but maybe they need to look elsewhere....yet another reason to stay here.

I believe the BC gov't plan, ICBC, use to insure "classics" at one time for agreed value too but got out of it in the last few years and turned everything over to Hagerty.
 
Damn, that seems weird..First the government says we have to have insurance to drive..So we have a car that is certified safe and the government regulates and controls the insurance company and the insurance company will not insure the car..WTF???? is wrong with this picture ??? Luckily I have not YET had any issue with insurance..But I think if and WHEN I do I think I might get on my MPP for an answer.. How in hell can they do that? Car is a certified safe vehicle they should have to provide insurance..What do they say for an excuse, I would request a reason for denying me an insurance policy in writing so I could take that to my MPP..

I am getting really sick of all the bullshit and regulations being heaped on rodders especially in Ontario .. Some stupid son-of-a-bitch sits in a air conditioned office and comes up with all these stupid backwards environmental regulations..They do not seem to appreciate just how many charity's are and good deeds are done by rodder's donating their time and cars ..We need to shoot those fking Liberals in the GTA area..It will take another generation to undo the economic damage they done to this province..

ROB FORD for Premier .....
 
On those really bad hair days linc..you could come for a visit and we could drink some root beers at Timy's..You could take that new Subway the faggot is trying to put the screws to Ont tax-payers to pay for..Actualy with all those MONSTER windturbines that are blighting and desecrating the landscape all over this once beautiful southwestern georgous holiday and tourist area of Southern Ont ..You may be able to para-sail up-or-down from GTA to the once beautiful resort of St.Marys now being surrounded by these big ugly pieces of crap...what a huge boondoggle mess ...

ROB FORD for Premier.....
 
I personally use Haggerty for insurance. I have the S.E.F. 19 A agreed value clause and the yearly premium is what I pay for one month for my daily driver. But as with any insurance you need to read the fine print. The snakes will try everything to get out of paying in the event of damage/ loss.
 
I personally use Haggerty for insurance. I have the S.E.F. 19 A agreed value clause and the yearly premium is what I pay for one month for my daily driver. But as with any insurance you need to read the fine print. The snakes will try everything to get out of paying in the event of damage/ loss.

Do they restrict your usage or can you drive your car whenever and wherever you want?


I'm with Zehr right now. The insurance premium is PEANUTS. I can insure three classic/hot/rod/modified (whatever you want to call them) cars for less than 1/2 what I can insure my beater for ---- but I can't drive the cars anywhere! (Other than to and from car shows and in parades.)
This "classic car" insurance is a JOKE.

Fatchuck, I agree with you.
The main point of my argument has always focused around this :

The car was legally safety-checked by a certified mechanic. In the eyes of the mechanic, based on the rules outlined by the Ontario Government, it is 100% safe.
I do not believe any insurance company should be able to deny me insurance or charge me any more than a realistic premium (based on appraised or agreed-upon value) to drive the car as it is theoretically just as safe as any other legally safety-checked vehicle. It's all B.S. and it's completely unfair.

But the neighbour's kid can hop up his rusted-out Honda and rip around with a fart can muffler and that's fine and dandy - no issues there! :mad:
 
I'm with Silver Wheel/Hagerty/Aviva and there is no limit on mileage, just not to and from work and mall shopping is discouraged, unless there is a "show".