Help??

[Martin]

Help and advise required here guys.
I purchased all my parts from the Old Car Centre and told them that I'd like to drop the front end of my A using 6.00X16 tires on a full fendered 29 coupe with split wishbones.
They advised the purchase of the following.
4" dropped axle (which I'd already purchsed from them)
7 leaf Reversed eye spring (drops it an inch) (or mono leaf)
I also bought new shackles, perches, U bolts & a shock kit that would fit with the above from OCC
Split wishbone kit purchase from Thompsons Garage.

As can be seen from the pictures its just to damn low and the Fender supports are resting on the tires.
The advise from one of the guys at OCC was to cut out the front cross member and install a hot rod cross member which would mean boxing the chassis and a bunch of welding, but he was not sure if it would make a difference as he did not have specs on the original cross member.

I thought I could put shims between the spring top and underside of the cross member but imagine I'd want as much of the spring as possible within the cross member for safety, this would not be the case with 2 inches worth of shims in place.

The plates for the front shock mounts seem to need to go where the fender braces mount (shocks in front of axle position).
If I position the shocks behind the axle I imagine they will interfeer with the steering components.

The wishbones are off setting the shackle (twisting) between the eye of the spring & eye of the perch.
I'm hoping dropping the mounting position of the bracket for the wishbone will help with this.
I'll take some more pictures of the actual components later but wanted to get this posted ASAP as the chap at OCC did not have an answer.

http://i398.photobucket.com/albums/pp70/macajabr/P1020405.jpg
http://i398.photobucket.com/albums/pp70/macajabr/P1020407.jpg
http://i398.photobucket.com/albums/pp70/macajabr/P1020406.jpg

[49stovebolt]

Martin, I am not the expert on Model A's but could you not return the 4 inch drop front axel and get a 2 inch drop front axel. It would likely give you the room you need with those 16 inch tires. You still may have issues when turning lock to lock with those large diametre tires/wheels.

I personally would not put 2 inches worth of shims in on the front end. That's just my 2 cents.

[Bash and scratch]

Martin are you dead set on using that diameter of a tire and that wicked a drop in the axle? If I am reading this right you have dropped the front end on the suspension by 5 inches? between the reverse eyes and the 4 inch axle, with those tires you have realized that you now have no suspension travel, when you first started did you have that much space between the tire and the fender? Keeping in mind that the suspension has to travel up and down. So if you had 5 inches space to start with you have to keep some for suspension travel and that travel would depend on spring strength, carry weight and shocks, I usually "try" to keep at least 3 inches for suspension sometimes it can make for a stiffer ride, but if you want to eliminate the space between the top of the tire and the bottom lip of the fenders (same goes for front and back) keep in mind that the fenders are only so deep! allowing only that much travel b4 they skid off the fenders.

You could try a smaller diameter tire in combo with the non reverse eye on the main leaf and a bit of a spacer, or less drop on the axle. there are many different combos that one can use but you have to keep in mind travel and depth of fenders. just my two cents

for what its worth..... Bash

[Martin]

Well I kind of assumed that as I was speaking to the guys at the OCC & they knew the tire combo, that I was being steered in the right direction Not partioning any blame here, but I thought I was being steered right.
It would appear that something got lost in the translation.
I would like to keep the tires as I just gave a grand for them.
Obviousley something has to be changed & its going to mean more $$$ on replacing new items with other new items.
Again speaking with the chap at OCC he said 4" is the way to go with the reversed eye spring using the tire combo. Regardless of what was said I've dug myself into a hole and need assistance being extracted.
I've turned my wheels and yes there is not a full turning lock but I can probably live with that.

[Canuck]

If your front x-mbr is in good shape, DO NOT change it, most after market x-mbrs drop the front end some or are the same as the one you have. I have the same combo that you have (Magnum 4 inch with Posies reversed eye spring) with a front x-mbr installed 1/2 inch lower, that actually raises the front fo the car and with 185.70x14 tires have barely adequate clearance.

I think you will have to pick your combo. Tall tires or drop axle and reversed eye spring.

The spring angle and spring perch angles have to match and are dictated by the proper caster of the front axle. The casster should be your guide line to set the rest.

Talk to Jim at OCC, I am sure that components can be returned to help you out.

Any chance on finding some local guys that have experience building early model rods that could drop over occasionally with some tips and advice?

Canuck

[rustbucket]

The guys at OCC will help and know their stuff
They need the full story to answer...this post will help them
Bob

[John in Oz]

In reality if you are going to be running the standard rear suspension you could either put the original axel back in or go to 14" wheels on the front with waht you have fitted there. You will find if you are running the standard rear spring then you will get a fair bit of body roll and the fenders will scrap on the tyres anyway. Perhaps just put the original axel back in and leave the lowered spring, but putting a modified cross member in you will only make the problem worse because the Hot Rod style cross member actually lowers the car even more. What you have done with the combination there is you have actually lowered the car 5" and that is a lot, even if you were to just put a 2" dropped axel and the reversed eye spring you would have in theory dropped the car 3" from what it was when you first started, even then you will posibley find that running the standard rear end set up when you are cornering the tire and fender bracket will still touch.

It sounds like a 2" dropped axel is all you could hope for in your situation but as I say even then with what you have set up there in the rear end you could still have problems.

Good luck with it, John

[Martin]

O Bugger
I guess I've turned into a basket ball and hooped myself. As ya might have seen in a previous post I painted all the parts so I'm guessing OCC probably won't want them back.
I'm going to shim the front end up tomorrow (temporary measure) and see how much clearance I'll actually need/get with 2"/2 1/2" between the spring & cross member.
After that I'll probably put the original axle back on with the original spring (reversed eye spring is 2" shorter) and see how that works & remove a leaf or two .
I think some of this has to do with my need for immediate gratification which is why I bought Frys tires which are quite OK but maybe not suited to my application.
I knew there would be a bit of a learning curve but not quite the 90 degree bend I seem to have given myself so I'll keep one of these :D on my face while being :confused: & look back going :rolleyes: while keeping $$$ valure from she who must be obeyed :eek: coz if she finds out she'll be:mad: & I'll be:o
Keep the suggestions & ideas a coming
Signed
Dazed & confused of Armstrong

[CDNflatlander]

Martin, if you find that the 2" spacer helps your project and your ride stance is suitable, let me know and I should be able to get you out of that 4" drop axel. That will set you up to purchase the 2" drop instead...just a thought.
Greg.

[Martin]

Greg
Thoughts are always good, wish I had more of them:D
Are smaller drop axles available off the shelf?
Glad I didn't get my original axle done done given the faux par.
Just contacted one of the other guys looking for a dropped axle
It cost me $295 plus the taxes & shipping ($350) but if it does become available I suggested it would be $275 plus postage.
Not sure it will fit on the Bug though:rolleyes:
Seem to have been smitten by the A body style, sedans also, and am already looking at others to purchase with the as of yet unsold 59 wagon money. I even told the guy who's been after my beloved 55 that it may be for sale.
gad zooks what am doing, must be all this snow, cabin fever I think its called.

On another subject, would it be wrong to put that our rental unit is available some where on the forum, I know thats not what the forum is about.
regards
martin

[Hammer396]

Ever thought about changing it to a hi-boy? It would solve all your suspension problems.......

[John in Oz]

Even if you are going to put it back to original or buy another axel why not keep the 4" dropped one because by the sound of things you have been biten by the bug and you will find that the 4" dropped will be used in a future project anyway, I'll see if I can't find a side on pic of my old A R/pu and post in B-Bobs roadster pickup section, that had about a 4" drop which was an old axel which had been dropped years ago.

Tell us the whole over view plan for this coupe before we go any further because we are all just geussing at what you want to do.

[PG409]

Martin

Check out the photos of AV8's RP in the Roadster pickup thread.
THose are the size of tires you should be running, not those big balloon
things.

I gave you a resource name in your area a few months back....you shoulda
been leaning on him for info. Ken Munro has been rodding 50 years and lots
of experience with axles etc. Phone # is in the Armstrong book.

Good Luck!!

[Alcan AV8]

I have a 4" drop axle and reverse eye spring. I am not sure how many leaves I have in there. I am using 4.50-4.75 - 16 Firestones and I am really happy with the way it works. Let me know if you want any more info or photos.

[Martin]

Just spent a couple of hours "playing" with the front end.
The end result is all the original axle & spring is back in:rolleyes: with the top two spring leaves sitting on the bottom.
The wheels/tires seem to fit the fender nicely and the car has a shallower rake to it. In heindsite I probably did get the wrong tires. The car is higher than I wanted it to be but looks just about right (ish)
I'll post pictures on Sunday and pose a couple more questions. those pick ups look real nice.

[Martin]

mmmmm?
Original axle & spring with top two leaves on the bottom. I think I really screwed up with the tire size, good for a fenderless car me thinks.
http://i398.photobucket.com/albums/pp70/macajabr/P1040414.jpg

[PG409]

Martin

Here are photos of my '29 Tudor. Top one taken in '82 and bottom
in '86 just before I sold it.
Note front tire radius is the same as the fender radius. This is how I think
an "A" should look. The rear is not quite right, however. I think a little
larger dia tire or an inch or two lower would have nailed it.
Just my opinion.Got my first Model A in 1957 and chopped the top but
never got it welded back together. Will find a photo a post it soon.


http://i134.photobucket.com/albums/q101/pg409/scan0009.jpg

[Kustomshoebox]

Hey PG409..... thats a nice looking car! I preffer the '82 paint scheme myself...

[PG409]

Thanks Shoebox....I started the car in 1976 and copied the
paint scheme of Ford pickups of that year. It was done in Lacquer
with Imron on the fenders. Subsequent paint was PPG base/clear
done by me with Rob Mellof holding my hand.
I still should have played with rear tire sizes more.............

[Kustomshoebox]

what was under the hood of that one? it looks pretty kool, I had a tall T sedan, that I wish I hadn't sold... thats more the taste I am heading, even though I have a pickup to finnish and a shoebox to sell first. I wanna build a rod damn it!

[PG409]

We are hijacking Martin's thread, but it was a V6 Buick, T350 auto
with stock firewall, no recess.
At the drag strip when it shifted into high (shouda left it in second) it
felt like a parachute went on.
But, a very good highway car and quite tractable.

Martin....the last 3 rides I did, I brought home junk steel wheels and tires
from the tire shop, until I got the right combination, then bought the good
wheels and rubber. Are those 40 Ford rims on the rear ?? IF so, do you have
to run a spacer to clear the irregular brake drum?? With 35 wires, I know
you have to.... Just wonderin..............

[b-bob]

All other facts aside, that front end setup is designed for narrow 15 inch rims with 165-15 tires. VW tires. Even at that i am about to modify my front fender braces tomorrow on my A. I cut the braces at the headlight bar bolts and run flat bar from there out to the outer edge mounting bolt. The flat bar hugs the inside of the fender. Gives a lot more room and you should be able to turn your front wheels with out rubbing. I know it is easier for someone else to say , but you may have to re-sell the front tires. Hope this helps . I will post pics of this modification in the next few days......I hope.

[Martin]

OK
So the up shot of my efforts so far is that except for the new shackles & spring perches all the original equipment is back on the car. :confused:

The spindles I have are the original model A type with a bushing/spacer fitted to allow the drum brakes to go on.

The new King pins only fit the dropped axle if using 42 to 48 spindles, which I don't have.

So, back to the old axle with an old King pin back in on one side with a new one in as a stop gap measure on the other.

OCC are not interested in taking the parts back as I painted them, doh.

So all I seem to have ahieved in the past six weeks is buying the wrong tires to fit with the front end idea that I had that wasn't going to work work due to the wrong spindles. If it's learning buy mistakes then yep, I've learnt. But theres been good advice & I've made a couple of contacts. That just about concludes any further efforts on the car for the next three months, gotta spend the next ten days getting our rental unit ready for renting then its back to bouncing around the oceans of the world for another 10 weeks.
(no doubt hatching plans for the car for the next time home)

[John in Oz]

The one good thing about keeping the axel etc is you can now build a Hot Rod chassis and swap the A from chassis to chassis, that would throw a curve ball to all the restoters that think you have done a restoration and some folks might even think you have 2 cars looking the same:D