If you didn't build the car...

[johnny37]

OK, here's something that has been bugging me for some time, and it came up again recently in a magazine I picked up. A fellow I know as an acquaintance bought a car from a friend of mine. The friend I know built the car, ground up from a pretty rough car to start with, but well worth doing. Late model SBF drivetrain shoehorned under the hood, 5 speed trans from same car used, all late model suspension including the IRS transplanted and then put on air, 4 wheel discs, on and on. The car drives and rides killer. I've been in it, and I know of some new cars that don't ride as nice. Here's the question. If you buy a car, (hot rod, resto, whatever) and it ends up as a magazine feature, do you take credit for the build (even though you did NONE of it) or give credit where credit is due? Guy who bought the car makes it sound in the article as though HE did all the work. Absolutely no where was any mention given of the history of the car's build. This kind of thing really browns me off. I know I'm going to see teh fellow who has the car now, and he'll mention the coverage. I'm just not sure how to handle it. I want to tell him off, but not sure what good it will do, other than maybe making me feel a little better getting the rant out. Of course I'll look like a bit of an ass, but then again I've never really cared about that before. What do you guys think??

I bought my 37 off b-bob, and will always say that without him, I might still not have a rod. He started the "fixing" of my car, installing the Mustang II front end, the motor mounts, the trans mount, the rear end, the steering, the brake pedal/master cylinder assembly. I installed the motor, wired the car, ran the brake lines, a whole bunch of little time consuming things, and did some re-assembly. And asked B-bob a ton of questions over the time I was doing all this. B-bob was also the guy who put in the front suspension, the rearend, the steering and the motor/trans mounts in my '52. Couldn't have done it without him. Bottom line...credit where credit is due. I didn't build the car, I built some of the car. All the tough stuff was done by my friend b-bob. I better not forget it. Slap me if I do.;)

[Ford_Fellow]

Just leave it alone. You know and most others will know real fast when they talk to him that he duz not know how the build went. He will sink his own ship without any help..
Hugh......................................PTP.

[Old Fart]

Well, for starters Johnny, I think you know Archie (aks Jughead) the guy I bought our tourin from?? (bought 99% of all his rebuild parts through OCC) I have never laid claim to doing anything to the car other than spending much time waxin/polishin the car (so much so that he swore I had repainted it), so why would I try n hide the fact that I LACK the know-how to complete the rebuild he did, although SOME of it was done with the assistance of his students in the auto body shop at the school where he teaches????

Moreso, when asked, I give more credit to Wayne Fagrae the original builder....in 1958.

I am just the current 'car sitter' of the l'il gem, till I can pass it on to someone who will cherish it as I have....
I'll get offa my soap box now.

[RATZZZ]

Johnny i bought my model A pickup and a beautiful as it is and what i changed to personalize it, i still never built it.
when people ask if i built it, i tell them no , but the guy who did did a hell of a nice job and i would sure like to meet him ! ;)

[64krusty]

Ford built my car, Davey Joe re-arranged it a whole lot(with help from others in PG).All I did was some re-assembly. But I did get the "trophy" ha ha ha

Your right some people take way too much credit for something they did not do and could not do.....why?

[RATZZZ]

P.S. , i think guys that take credit for things they didnt do just have small penis,s

ha! no net nanny!

[UGLEE 33]

iffin I made out a list of all the people who have helped me with my T coupe, I would look like I didn,t do anything myself.

wait a minute!!!! maybe I havent :o

[RATZZZ]

dont worry buick , the donkey says you have a big penis!:D

[PeterB]

Johnny37,

Well I would leave it alone what goes around comes around. I am no mechanic and a lot of you know it. I am very proud to say Bill and Neil Lemon Built my coupe. But if you ask me what parts I have and where i got them from. I can list them all off.

Cheers
PeterB

[dale48mrc]

Lets see,I didn't build my 90GMC,my 54 F100,our the Merc.I improved upon GM's work on my 90.The 54 was built by Ford,hot rodded by someone else,and now I'm makin' it my own.The Merc was also built by Ford,and I'm now makin' that one my own and to my personal taste.
I don't take credit for someone else's work,and I'll be the first one to point out someone's handiwork or even an idea.I feel that if you buy a completed car,you should give the props to the builder.Taking credit for someone else's work is the just wrong.To me that on the same level as lying!

[b-bob]

Thanx John. I am blushing. You have always been honest about it.

[stovbolt]

well I'm one of the lucky one's
every one i've ever helped in any way has alway's given me credit for it even the little things i've done
so no complaints here with my freinds and anyone thats helped me along the way gets the credit they deserve as well no matter how trivial
for those that take the credit for nothing well i don't have the time of day to get angry with them sooner or later they always trip up "I've seen it"
so Johnny let it be it'l come around and feel good that he's not fooling you K

[Davey_Joe]

real good topic johnny!!..... i don't build cars..... "WE",..... build cars!! each rod that comes outta my shop here is a culmination o' the heart an' soul of a helluva lotta freinds!..... that goes right from parts,... ideas,... labour,... an' any other kind of input you can think of!!.... (including piles of beer!!)..... yeah, we've sent cars down the road (more than once) that showed up in the pages that the new 'owner' seemed ta build all by themselves, with "no" credit given to the folks that poured their hearts in it!..... they usually sink in their own poop bud!!.......

[JAKE_THE_SNAKE]

IF tou check my intro thats exactly what I meant ,,,the 41 was built by a small group of friehds in dj,s shop and it was built in a hurry ,,,,,,4 days round the clock.....jts

[John in Oz]

Johnny if you have a look in the Under Construction section you will see that I have even at that early stag given credit to those that deserved it.

When a Magazine did a feature on my 33 there is a list thanking the ones that helped along the way, how ever I did not mention how a couple of guys ripped me off like there was no tomorrow with faulty work and over charging what was the quoted price. One guy who used to be a friend and he was starting up a business building rods so I gave it to him to do some work on and I am not kidding at all, I gave it to him because he had tried to do himself in not long before and so even though my 33 was very close I thought it would give him a kick along and it was all work I was going to do myself but he promised me he would have it ready for a run I wanted to take it to more than a mad dog needs a flogging. It turned out every single job he did had to be re done and that takes more time than just taking your time and doing it yourself to fix someone elses muck ups and his price was way over what he quoted. So it turned out he was telling people that went to his shop he had done the work on the car before he had even done anything to it. How do you think that feels.

When the mag did the story I thanked those that did the right thing by me (I think Sqhd has a copy of that mag) and never mentioned the poofters that clipped me. Mind you the word of mouth soon lets folks know what went on when it came to the exhaust and the other guy.

I didn't mention in the article I don't think where I had bought a lot of parts from The Old Car Centre either, and as Buick 55 said when you read it the story looks like I didn't do anything but I can tell you I did put a real lot into it but never mind that's life.

I'd just say something to the guy like I see they did a story on your car and that magazine mucked up who built it, don't those guys get the truth mixed up. Then just leave it at that rather than causing too much of a rift. Next time he might just tell the way it really is. If there is a next time.

I know why you tell everyone B Bob built the car (37) because you don't want to own up to painting it PINK!!!!! and calling it Dusty Rose, by the way I like that car big time and even took a pic of it at Deuce Days. Personally I wouldn't call it Pink either.

The bloke that bought my old Roadster pickup even put my name as builder on his board when he shows the car which is very flattering but he need not have done that even because the way I feel he owns the car and it is his now but all the same it was nice of him to mention me.

Keep cool John and don't let it get to you too much after all you and others know th ereal story, Cheers, John

[Fatchuk]

I would not sweat it either..Fact is you know and he knows you know ..lifes to short..to get yer shorts to tight.. fatchuk

[Rochie]

Johnny,
there are so few people that CAN actually build a complete car. Everyone of us has to give credit to someone for their help or talent. But I'd like to ask you a question.

Will this matter in two weeks??? AND how will it impact YOUR life other than letting this dufus get under your skin and raise your blood pressure??????
Life is too short to be angered by some dink, like McCartney said "Let it Be"
Wayne

[lucky]

i had a problem like that years ago, when i was married i had a 34 ford three window i built,looked just like the california kid for me, and built a 54 chev pick up chopped tubbed with a big block i built for the wife. well you know what happens when a divorice happened! had to sell the toys, the 54 went to some guy that changed the colour and interior made it in the magazine and took all the credit that he built the truck, boy was i upset. but yea i dont like people that take credit for something that someone else put there sweat and hard work into.

[Digger_Dave]

Johnny,
there are so few people that CAN actually build a complete car. Everyone of us has to give credit to someone for their help or talent. But I'd like to ask you a question.

Will this matter in two weeks??? AND how will it impact YOUR life other than letting this dufus get under your skin and raise your blood pressure??????
Life is too short to be angered by some dink, like McCartney said "Let it Be"
Wayne

Wayne, you touch on the very point that even I have to step back, and examine WHO built my '41 truck.

Was it ME??

Well, I dragged home the body and the TWO frames.
(the two eventually were integrated to form one good one)
The welding together of the two frames was done by a pro welder.
(I can't weld worth a damn)

I sandblasted the cab, fenders and the final frame.
The sandblasting of the cab was my first mistake.

The body man that agreed to take the body and fenders and straighten the "dings" told me, "You should have checked with me first; the warpage you caused is going to cost you BIG time!"

Six months later, (he told me he was only going to work on it during quiet periods) there sat a smooth, bright yellow cab, and a pair of front fenders.

The frame had been powder coated - local firm - along with the running gear.

Engine; a friend who built flat heads - in one of the local engine shops - sent me searching for a usable block. I went through about seven engines before I found a usable block.
He then built me a "killer" engine.

(A side note here; That was 25 years ago, since then I build my own flat head engines)

I think your getting the drift here; Upholstery - an Upholstery shop.
Glass - a local glass shop.
Alignment - an alignment shop.
Brake drums - an old "coute" at NAPA; instructed me on setting up early Ford brakes. (I ran the brake lines)

Now, the WIRING I did do myself. (Heck, I was in the business)

So ... bottom line. Did I build this truck??
It wouldn't EXIST without the help of both friends AND professionals!!

[Davey_Joe]

DD,.... that is "exactly where we come from over here!!.... i'm thinkin' most o' the crew here are on that wavelength. well put...........

[rustbucket]

Well i'm not welding my frame,not painting,not doing upholstery or powder coating but !!!!
its my ideas and input from friends and forumers that 'make' the car so did i build it? no.is it mine?? Yes.

[Dribs]

Let it slide... if everyone knows the car, they know who really built it and that gets around.

I personally give credit where credit is due, but some people aren't like that and are only kidding themselves.

[47convert]

Well, UHH Gee, I never had that problem - my cars will probably never make a magazine feature. I try to do most of my own work, but I know I'm not an upholsterer or a body man so that stuff gets farmed out. If anyone asks, I tell them too. But I don't think I'd really care if some guy who owns one of my old Rods takes credit - after all - I got the cash! You know what they say Money talks Bull**it walks. These guys always get found out.

[b-bob]

Johnny, you also know that in Langley, or any smaller town, every one knows each other. Word spreads when some one buys a car, so all the car people would know anyway.

[Hammer396]

I think alot of us are like "general contractors" , you know, the guy who lines up everything when you build a house.... the house would'nt get built without him or the car without us.... bottom line is 99 percent of us cannot do everything, but I do agree you have to give credit where credit is due, those who help us along the way will always be on my list at the show & shines...

[got_an_anglia]

I built a complete car once..... out of lego! haha.:) I've dabled here and there on a few of my vehicles getting the nerve to do a whole build. the first engine i built was a 454 chebby with ls6 427 heads. that was at 14 years old. It went into a 77 chev pickup that was turd brown with orange interior! yummy. I have had alot of jap crap and big ol' four bys. Had a 89 5.0 mustang lots of fun, too many tickets! All of which i did small things too. My major job was the 77' f100 that i have everything on that truck has been rebuilt replaced by me except the trany which was done at Parkhill transmisions here in P.G. Interior was done at Lightning in P.G. and the body was finished and painted by Arnold Bolin in P.G. but all assembly, electrical, mechanical was done by me. It is not that i didn't want any help, its that all my friends were too busy chasin tail to worry about cars.:D But now that i have all of the friends on this forum for help and all my new friends from the saturday brekkys ive gotten more help, and im sure that there is more to come then ive gotten in the past 12 years. I'm proud of what i have driven. If it has been boughten or built by me, or even if i just change the oil in it! just dont take credit for what you didn't do.This hobby is about the love of hotrodding and the friends you have to enjoy it with! jim

[..77.]

The 50 chebby pick up i bought offa a friend of mines widow . He owned if for like 20 yrs . He bought it from some dude in the Satans Choice club in Toronto . Its sposed to have and feels like it a 68 Vette 3fiddy 40 over dble bump heads Toronto. A Pacer ind frt suspension . Borg warner super t10 and a Chevelle posi rear . The guy who I got it fronm didnt ever do much to it , I doing some upgrades and mods to make it the way I like it . Thats what I tell anyone that asks me about the truck ..77.

[bullet]

When I first moved to and bought this 100 yr old historic house in NS, people would say, you bought the old DeLong House and I would say yes, but I'm only the caretaker of the community's heritage.

If you have to say anything, and this would be a subtle slap, if asked if you liked the article, say yes, however, it would have been nice if the builders name was mentioned in the article. And leave it at that.

[johnny37]

Thanks to all who replied here. I wasn't pointing to anyone in particular on the board, but I think you all figured that out anyway. It seems we are all on the same wavelength here, that is credit where credit is due. The ones who "clip you" as John in Oz says are found out very quickly. The same I guess is true of those who pretend to build stuff. Thanks for the cool down, and I'm glad this sparked some pretty intelligent and thoughtful discussion.

John in Oz, b-bob didn't paint my car dusty rose, the guy prior to b-bob did when he restored the car in the early 1990's. Before he sold the car to me, his plan was to get rid of the dusty rose and paint the whole car red. I just happened to get it before he got that far.:D

[lucky]

hey 77
is that truck yellow or was it yellow with black interior long box with a sun visor? if so i put the motor and the front end in that truck years ago

[Kruuzin]

What Billet said...........ya..........:D

[RATZZZ]

johnny same kind of guy, that trailers his car to the show and unloads a mile away,

then tells everyone he drove the car all the way from his home town:eek:

[Scotty]

This has happened since the start of hot rodding. How many George Barris cars were later found out to be done by Dick Dean or others. How many cars did Boyd actually get his hands dirty on. Sometimes the magazine is working from poor notes or a tech sheet only or the writer is an idiot. Like Bullet says, if confronted make a lighthearted comment and move on. I wouldn't worry about it unless you are directly involved. The fact that a car I've worked on deserves recognition means more to me than whether I actually receive credit. I know that I've done a good job and that's what matters.

[wrascal]

Sometimes building a car is a team effort. Even Chip Foose has people helping him build his cars and does not do every tiny piece himself. I don't think that it is a contest to see if you can build a car yourself, but the comrodderie of friends. Friends that spend a saturday evening putting that motor in one more time, only asking a couple of cold beer in return.

Russ:D

[Shiny]

Hahaha, this just happened to me, TODAY!:mad:
About four years ago I built the chassis for a "friend", gave him a smoking buddy deal too.
The car is in Canadians Hot Rods and Classics this month.
The model A sedan, I built the whole chassis at my shop, Z'd front and rear, mounted the diff, mill, trans etc etc.
He promised me he'd bring it to our Invasion Hot Rod Weekenders as he was building it to show off my work.
And guess what, hes never even brought it to even show it to me!
My buddy just called and told me about the feature on it and my friend Daves truck,and said there is no mention what so ever of me doing anything on the car. Heck I even built and set up the tri-power on it too:rolleyes:
I guess it would have hurt for him to mention anybody else actually workin on the car besides himself!

-Shiny

[johnny37]

Knobs will be knobs, eh?? That's pretty crappy Shiny. Nice to see your work in the book though.

[64krusty]

Hey Shiny, now I have to get the magazine so when I see the car at a show, I can say"wow did Shiny ever do a good job on yer chassis".....think I'll get a good reaction?

[b-bob]

Krusty, better yet say it in front of the owner! That would realy p.. him off.

[johnny37]

b-bob, thats the only time to say it. Really loudly too.:D:D

[Magoo38]

I been tellin the story of how I built my car so long I actually belive myself LOL:D

A great Quote for us all to remember is;

"A man never discloses his own character so clearly as when he describes another's" Jean Paul Richter:cool:

Magoo

[Cword]

The sad part of calling out the current owner of a car regarding the original build is that it will cause the initiation of a tale of how much they had to "fix" "poor workmanship" and other malady's, real or imagined that somehow works to justify their opinions. This goes on to generate more bad blood in the hobby.
The finger pointing and fussing gets to the point where car events have more drama than quiting bees.